FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

[Ian Lepore]

On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 11:58 -0600, Warner Losh wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 11:47 AM Ian Lepore <ian at freebsd.org> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 11:38 -0600, Warner Losh wrote:
> > > 
> > > On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 11:26 AM Ian Lepore <ian at freebsd.org>
> > > wrote:
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 10:21 -0600, Warner Losh wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 10:15 AM Michelle Sullivan
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > tech-lists wrote:
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > I'm astonished you're considering removing rl given how
> > > > > > > common
> > it is.
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > I'll second that comment - though no disrespect to
> > > > > > Brooks.  Brooks
> > as
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > far as I can see is just the messenger.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > Absent good data, one has to make one's best guesses. I
> > > > > guessed wrong
> > > > here
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > in my comments to Brooks about which ones were must keeps. I
> > > > > knew it
> > was
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > popular back in the day (~2000), but had thought it's
> > > > > popularity had
> > > > waned
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > much more than it apparently has. I last deployed systems
> > > > > with rl in
> > them
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > around 2007, and at the time it was trailing edge gear (the
> > > > > SBCs we
> > used
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > at
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Timing Solutions tended to use popular, but ~5-year-old
> > > > > technology
> > > > because
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > that market segment wanted longevity of spare
> > > > > availability...).
> > > > > 
> > > > > Warner
> > > > 11 years later, we (Timing Solutions, now a division of
> > > > Microchip) are
> > > > still using SBCs with rl(4) hardware and still shipping
> > > > software
> > > > updates with that driver built into the kernel. We build
> > > > systems with a
> > > > lifespan in the field of 20 years or more, and the stability
> > > > and
> > > > compatibility across OS upgrades over that kind of span is a
> > > > BIG reason
> > > > to use freebsd rather than linux for such things.
> > > > 
> > > OK. I'd have thought those SBCs would have gone out of production
> > > years
> > > ago.... It's a good datapoint to know that there's multiple users
> > > of
> > > FreeBSD using these parts in products that are still shipping.
> > > That's a
> > > clear and compelling benefit to the project that offsets the
> > > efforts that
> > > it's taken them to keep things current with rl.
> > > 
> > > In this case, though, rl is off the list, so that hardware should
> > > still
> > be
> > > 
> > > good. The only other SBC I was aware of at Timing Solutions was
> > > one that
> > > had an 'ed' chip on it (an ISA realtek part IIRC) that was used
> > > in around
> > > 2001, but in a 'one off' custom setup that I don't think will
> > > ever be
> > > upgraded.... But I have to ask since I know how things worked
> > > during my
> > > time there and systems that 'would never be upgraded' often times
> > > were
> > > later...
> > > 
> > > I'd also suggest that rl stands in stark contrast to the cs, wb,
> > > sn, smc,
> > > sf, tl, tx and vr drivers, which nobody has mentioned in this
> > > thread, and
> > > which I doubt are in use in any FreeBSD system of any age today.
> > > 
> > > Warner
> > I checked all our various kernel configs, and the only one on the
> > list
> > we still use appears to be rl.
> > 
> > One driver I was surprised to see was not on the list was vte. So
> > I'll
> > just preemptively mention that we do use that one too.
> > 
> I'll assume that you've deployed more than 5 of these systems and
> that you
> may someday upgrade them as well?  Which of the Vortex86 processors
> are you
> using, if you can answer that...
> 
> Warner

It's a DM&P Vortex86DX on a PCA-6743 board, which you can still buy.

32-bit only, BTW, which is why I hate hearing recent mumblings about
discarding 32-bit x86 support in freebsd.

-- Ian