Need an environment for dynamic web content for freebsd.org

[Vadim Goncharov]

Hi Jeremy Chadwick! 

On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 02:16:59 -0700; Jeremy Chadwick wrote about 'Re: Need an environment for dynamic web content for freebsd.org':

>>>>  It should at least cgi or, as aforemetioned, a wiki-like page. There can be
>>>>  already some wiki engines which allow voting.
>>> I've not seen any useful voting mechanism implemented on a wiki.
>>> Pointers?  CGI is exactly the kind of 15 year old stagnant web
>>> technology we are trying to get away from. We need quick templating,
>>> sessions, high level UI libraries, etc..  
>> 
>> Yes.
>> 
>>> All of which things like PHP, Python/Django, etc.. provide.
>> 
>> They all provide, except PHP :) Every serious PHP project is reinventing
>> template system, database abastraction layers
> Because PHP's DBI implementation sucks horribly.  One of the worst
> things about it is that it doesn't support placeholders/binds in query
> strings.  Another horrible aspect is that there's a separate API
> function name per DBI, rather than using a standard calling convention
> and let you pick a database driver to use (like perl and most other
> languages).

And absent templates and slow speed. Because Zend wants to *sell* PHP
optimizer.

> The only reason people use PHP -- and that includes me (yes, I speak
> fluent PHP) -- is because it's *convenient*.  

Easier for totally dumb housewife, you mean? That's true, and that's why
it is popular amongst novice users. But for projects more serious than
a homepage it can quickly become a pain in the ass.

> It interfaces with
> webservers in a much "nicer" way, and has a significant number of API
> functions that are more web-friendly than, say, perl.

Then you should try several Perl modules to do, for templates and other. Even
plain CGI is a good start point :)

> And don't even get me started on how to debug PHP.  I hope you enjoy
> using print/echo repetitively throughout code.

Do you mean putting errors on the web page and revealing paths, SQL schemas,
etc. to possible attacker? Oh, no, thanks.

> I have no interest in Python, because any language which treats
> whitespace and tabs differently can rot (even assemblers don't behave
> this way!).  And I will strangle whoever recommends Ruby or Ruby on
> Rails.

That's debatable, but not the scope of PHP badness :)

>>>       - Murray (who doesn't know/use PHP, but knows that the freebsd
>>> web presence is notably missing something like it)
>> 
>> Anything but PHP. Don't choose that buggy, slow, immanently insecure
>> technology. Please.
>> 
>> P.S. You can see http://tnx.nl/php for a short summary of PHP drawbacks. Even
>> Perl is much better.
> I would agree with this.  One can accomplish great things with
> p5-libwww.
> The existing CMSs out there (for both PHP and perl) are either horribly
> written, or bloated beyond belief.  The same goes for most Wiki
> software, again regardless of PHP or perl.

Every serious project can't rely on public CMS - this not looks solid.
LiveJournal.com, SlashDot.com, etc. million-users sites - all have their
own software written in Perl.

> Then again, all said comments are coming from a person who's very much a
> minimalist.  :-)

I am a minimalist. too :)

-- 
WBR, Vadim Goncharov. ICQ#166852181       mailto:vadim_nuclight at mail.ru
[Moderator of RU.ANTI-ECOLOGY][FreeBSD][http://antigreen.org][LJ:/nuclight]