[Fwd: What do people think about not installing a stripped /kernel ?]

Matthew Dillon dillon at apollo.backplane.com
Wed Oct 20 14:29:53 PDT 2004

    The key point here, folks, is the KISS principle.  The idea is to make
    life easier for (1) inexperienced BSD users especially those who are 
    doing new installs from scratch and (2) the developers that have to field
    bug reports from the former, and (3) To do it without adding more confusion
    or complication to the installation operation or the recovery/savecore
    operation or the directory layout.  God knows you have enough of that
    already.  savecore already copies /kernel to /var/crash, I'm just making
    it copy a kernel with debug symbols for convenience.  People already gdb
    running kernels, I'm just making it easier to do so without having to 
    save a separate copy of the kernel.debug somewhere else where it winds
    up getting out of sync with what is actually running.  We already have to
    field lots of bug reports from users who know enough to get a core, but
    don't have a useful kernel to debug the core with.   This saves a step.
    In fact, we enable core dumps in our installs now and once we fix up
    /var/crash's size (for new installs), even total newbies will be able to
    provide useful cores to us.

    That is what is being addressed here.

    The idea is decidedly NOT to hack things to pieces with alternative
    debug files that will confuse more people then it helps, even if you
    do make 'savecore' do the right thing.  And the idea is most decidedly
    NOT to make things easier for the *experienced* developers who cannot
    otherwise be bothered to add a simple option to their kernel config
    to revert to a stripped install if space is an issue, or add a single
    strip command to their full custom flash card installer, or things of
    that ilk.  Those are really silly arguments IMHO.

    In anycase, the only real issue vis-a-vie FreeBSD is the space 
    consideration on your CDs, and that only effects the decision whether
    to include a debug kernel on the CD or a stripped kernel on the CD and
    doesn't really prevent implementation of the idea generally.  As Julian
    said (and I brought this up on our lists too), it's easy enough for the
    installer to strip the kernel it installs.  I would strongly recommend
    making the room, because a release CD hits the target audience for this
    square on the peg.  We've been going with packageless and sourceless
    release CDs and only one or two people grumbled about having to download
    things over a modem, and even those had downloaded the ISO over their
    modem so it wouldn't even have helped to include them on the CD. 

    pkg_add -r is your friend, and the internet is now far more wide-spread
    then it was a decade ago.  Maybe the time is ripe for the change in your


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