RFC: Sendmail deprecation ?

[Nathan Whitehorn]

On 12/10/17 12:08, K. Macy wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 10, 2017 at 6:27 AM,  <freebsd.arch at clogic.com.ua> wrote:
>> On 2017-12-10 15:31, Jamie Landeg-Jones wrote:
>>> freebsd.arch at clogic.com.ua wrote:
>>>
>>>> Most users don't need a sandmail in base. As example, I always disable
>>>> sendmail and install dma for local use or postfix for mail servers. So I
>>>> can't understand, why I need do this every time as I install new
>>>> instance of FreeBSD in 2017?
>>>
>>> There are many valid arguments for and against removal, but I'm afraid
>>> that isn't one of them.
> That's not really the question. The question is "why won't 'pkg
> install sendmail' work for users that need it?" There are two
> technical reasons for why a component is in base and two emotional /
> political.
>
> The two technical reasons are:
> 1) The system won't work without it (e.g. rc files, kill, rm, etc)

As a sub-point, we do want the base system to be a reliable and 
consistent set of things such that scripts and instructions can 
reference them; one of FreeBSD's strong points is that I can write a 
script targeting "FreeBSD" and know that a reasonably complete system is 
going to be present and that I won't find out that, say, ping or telnet 
are not installed. This expands the set of important tools much beyond 
"kill" and "rm" and means we should tread very, very carefully in terms 
of moving things out of the base system -- this is one of my major 
general reservations about the proposed implemention of pkgbase.

That said, sendmail is *definitely* not in that category so long as some 
basic MTA is there that makes reports from periodic etc. work. The 
important thing is that mail(1) work, not that it be sendmail. So I'm 
100% in favor of dropping sendmail.
-Nathan

> 2) The component is tightly coupled to the kernel (e.g. bhyve)
>
> There are of course plenty of things which fall in to both buckets:
> libc, ifconfig, etc.
>
> The two emotional reasons are:
> 1) Emotional attachment (e.g. fortune)
> 2) Inertia (rcs, sendmail, etc)
> Thanks to bapt and friends pkg "just works" for most people for most
> cases. In conclusion, further discussion needs to either a) make a
> compelling case for why either my technical points are insufficient or
> the emotional drivers are critical; or b) explain why "pkg install
> sendmail" won't work.
>
> Cheers.
> -M
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