CoC does not help in benchmarks

Chad Jacob Milios freebsd-list at
Mon Jul 16 23:45:09 UTC 2018

> On Jul 13, 2018, at 6:44 PM, Erich Dollansky <freebsd.ed.lists at> wrote:
> Hi,
> here are the consequences of putting a CoC up high on the priority list:
> <>

There is NO indication of causality here. Your logic is missing or flawed.

> Focusing on software would have made FreeBSD do better.

Fair ‘nuff, let’s do that. What is it that you’re focusing on with this message or [ongoing] thread, though?

> On Jul 15, 2018, at 8:28 PM, Adam <amvandemore at> wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 16, 2018 at 12:24 AM, Warner Losh <imp at <mailto:imp at>> wrote:
>> On Sun, Jul 15, 2018, 6:20 PM Andras Farkas <deepbluemistake at>
>> wrote:
>>> On Sun, Jul 15, 2018 at 7:31 PM Warner Losh <imp at> wrote:
>>>> Such overly-simply CoCs have proven unworkable in the past. They were
>> OK
>>> in
>>>> the 90's, but we live in a different internet world today. These are
>> good
>>>> guidelines and great advice, but make it hard to take action when
>>>> necessary. I wish it were not so.
>>>> we live in a different internet world today
>> [Citation needed]
>> Direct personal experience on a conduct board, 10 years over the last 20
>> serving on FreeBSD core team. Most of that time as core's specialist in
>> interpersonal disputes. That qualifies me to have an informed, expert
>> opinion.
>> So what are your credentials?
> I'm an expert because I say I am.  What kind of conduct is that?
> -- 
> Adam

Adam, Andras, he just said, he’s got direct and pertinent experience, specifically where (here) and for how long.

Andras, I bet you’d like a citation, but is one “needed”? Here you’re just trolling the poor sunovabidge. He’s entitled to share his experiences, perspective and personal opinion and you’re free to disregard it if you feel so inclined.

> On Jul 15, 2018, at 8:57 PM, Ted Hatfield <ted at> wrote:
> I had hoped that we were done with this nonsense.
> Let it go already.
> Ted Hatfield

Wisest remark yet.

> On Jul 16, 2018, at 3:24 AM, Erich Dollansky <freebsd.ed.lists at> wrote:
> what kind of action can be done with the new CoC that could not have
> been done with the old CoC?
> Erich

I think Jeff answered this before you asked:

> On Jul 15, 2018, at 9:03 PM, Jeff Roberson <jroberson at> wrote:
> Many past and present core members found that the existing document was insufficient in dealing with the conflict they were being asked to resolve.  This resulted in some relatively high profile incidents that harmed the project.  Having direct experience with the problem at hand, and having been voted into a position to deal with this, does in fact entitle Warner to speak with some authority on the subject.
> Furthermore, we polled committers and found that there was near universal support for respectful communication and for removing people who were unable to conduct themselves well.  Core needs a document that provides guidelines so that this process is not capricious or surprising.
> Jeff

Insightful and informative. Thank you, Jeff. I think any of us who’ve had any real participation in the various forums of communication used by The Project for any significant length of time are familiar with the often passionate and sometimes contentious nature of many talented and creative people. When a necessary response, which may come as drastic, is sometimes taken it’s only made worse if it’s met with shock and surprise by the may-be brat throwing the would-be tantrum.

> On Jul 15, 2018, at 7:26 PM, Erich Dollansky <freebsd.ed.lists at> wrote:
> Does anybody need more:
>    Keep it civil.
>    Be tolerant.
>    Remember that you are in public and that your actions determine the
>    public perception of the project. Do not make it personal. Do not
>    take it personally.
> Erich

You know, Erich, this is a perfectly valid question. I had the same very same question myself, and I must say, it’s a mighty fine CoC you got here. I see nothing at all wrong with yer short CoC, but see, we’re white, we’re men. A small CoC’s always seemed to work well enough for us. Ask the women though. See what they think. Ask a darker fellow how he appreciates the utility of having the longer, broader CoC.

Core and the CoC committee did _not_ have an easy job to do! No, they didn’t do it flawlessly but it seems like it’s so Gawt dayum easy for some of y’all to sit back and complain from your easy chair. If you actually know how to behave and conduct yourself as a decent human being then why t.f. should the prior or current CoC have any real bearing on your life _whatsoever_? This is not rhetorical. I am seriously asking, please, can someone explain all this butthurt to me?

I can admit, i do understand the appeal of the good ol’ days of the boyz club. Colorful and loud, outright raucous discourse, i tend to enjoy. But we are a bigger project now. Like Warner said, the 90’s are over. With all the good we’ve achieved comes some compromises. I’d rather support and protect diversity.

Can anyone actually tell me why they find the long CoC so intimidating? Honestly, who really left the project _over_the_CoC_? Pointing at our CoC to cast blame is just simple minded and lazy. There are PLENTY of problems and issues with the project and the software while there are also many very good very hard working people doing all that they can to make FreeBSD GREAT, and I think it still is. I find discussions about those issues to be infinitely more interesting than bickering about our CoC.

Much LOVE to all of you. Oh shoot, now did I just trip over FreeBSD’s massive CoC?


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