advocacy/89731: TOO MANY SPAMs on jp.freebsd.org's mailing list

Takeo Hashimoto HashimotoTakeo at mac.com
Wed Nov 30 18:04:09 GMT 2005


Mr.Baldwin, thanks for your guidance.

On Thu 01 Dec 2005 00:49 JST, John Baldwin wrote:
>> >On Wednesday 30 November 2005 01:07 am, Takeo Hashimoto wrote:
>> >> Currently every subscriber has to spend their time
>> >> wading through the spam to pick up the ones which are not spam.
>> >> (Of course it is dissipation of resources.)
>> >
>> >Yes, I use spamassassin personally.  Also, I should note that
>> > FreeBSD.org's mail server employs some aggressive spam filtering which
>> > stops a lot of it from showing up on FreeBSD lists.  Perhaps the jp folks
>> > could setup some spam filtering on their mail server as well to cut down
>> > on the load.  Note that only a couple of FreeBSD.org lists are
>> > restrict_post, most are open.
>>
>> FreeBSD.org lists may be greater than jp's, but you said to me:
>> >                                     Also, I should note that
>> > FreeBSD.org's mail server employs some aggressive spam filtering which
>> > stops a lot of it from showing up on FreeBSD lists.
>>
>> it is very good. I'm very grad to hear that.
>> we all want to hear same explanation from jp admins.
>>
>> There is no transparency on jp.FreeBSD.org,
>> so we feel no democracy and admins dogma.
>
>Yes, but with volunteer projects you as a user can't just go mandate that the 
>people doing the work go spend their time doing X.  FreeBSD isn't that much 
>of a democracy either.  Granted, core members are elected, but only by 
>developers, not by users.  This is something of a common theme in the Open 
>Source world in that the people who do the work get to make decisions.  
>FreeBSD.org also has very little oversight of xx.FreeBSD.org, those entities 
>are fairly autonomous.  Have you tried talking to the jp.FreeBSD.org admins 
>directly?  Have you volunteered to help out with doing some of the work if 
>so?  If you can't get them to be responsive, then you can also take action by 
>setting up your own mailing lists with the policies that you wish to use.  If 
>users end up preferring your lists then at some point your list may supersede 
>the current list at jp.FreeBSD.org.

# you're breakin' my heart. :(

>Have you tried talking to the jp.FreeBSD.org admins directly?

OK now I know that it was my mistake that I had started from send-PR.
I had to start contacting to jp admins.
# yes, I sent some mail to them an hour ago.

>Have you volunteered to help out with doing some of the work if so?

actually not yet.
I want to do so, as I am just a poor user, I am not a developer,
but I want to spend my time to make it better.

am I wrong again?

>If you can't get them to be responsive, then you can also take action by 
>setting up your own mailing lists with the policies that you wish to use.

I don't want fork.

I think that if I (and most jp.FreeBSD.org list user) can't get them
to be responsive, there should be some re-election to disclose
the dicision making process even if mobocracy.

am I wrong again?

>> I think we are same on this point:
>>   "how to make it easy for new people to get started with FreeBSD?"
>>
>> but the conclusion is different.  You say "open the door (with gatekeeper)"
>> I say "close the door until you examine the newcomer is a human".
>>
>> I think that it is policy problem, so jp admins need to have public
>> hearing. Will this PR cause their action? I hope.
>
>Well, I'm not sure any of the jp guys are reading this exchange, so I don't 
>know if it will result in any action or not.  The PR database really isn't 
>suited well for this type of request either.  If you haven't talked to the jp 
>folks directly, then you should do that first (but not the caveats I 
>mentioned earlier).  If you have talked to the jp folks and are unhappy with 
>their response, you can try to bring the issue to core at .  However, if you are 
>unable to convince the jp admins to make a change, your best bet may be to 
>work on setting up your own alternative list.

OK, then, this PR was wrong topic.
my last task of this PR is only one thing:
 - post a summary 

...am I wrong again? :)

anyway, I will keep act to jp admins. thanks.
#----------------------------------------------------------#
# Takeo Hashimoto.         It's impossible, ...but doable. #
#----------------------------------------------------------#


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