advocacy/89731: TOO MANY SPAMs on jp.freebsd.org's mailing list

[Takeo Hashimoto]

Hello, Mr.Lodder.

now I almost agreed with you.
- "restrict" is not a golden hammer for some lists.
- no one can stop spam tsunami, so people have to protect them by themselves.
- on the other hand, we may implement some level of filtering at server side.
- sending PR does not change jp.freebsd.org. I should act directly to them.

On Thu, Dec 01, 2005 00:29 JST, Remko Lodder wrote:
>> I don't think so, they do search first on the web before posting mail.
>> and that is my 1st point.
>>  - newbie can not find any kind of know-how from ML archive site.
>> because the archive has been filled with spam.
>
>You are colliding with yourself here i think. People do not search the
>archives first and then ask questions, as someone who helped out on
>questions@ a year ago, i can tell you that. Also -if- people search
>on the archives and they give good keywords they will find the proper
>information without the spam.
>
>>
>> But I agree "open" and "restrict_post" should be beneficiate for each
>> list.
>>
>>>                                                     The other problem
>>> is that
>>>some ML, like questions@, get a large number of e-mails a day.  I'm
>>> not sure
>>>it's fair to require a user to wade through a hundred or more
>>> non-spams just
>>>so they can ask a question.
>>
>> If user posts some questions to the list,
>> then he might get some answer, and also much hard spam?
>> unfortunately it is true at jp.FreeBSD lists.
>> I think the policy "restrict_post" will save him (and also us).
>>
>> but you don't think so. mmm...
>
>I think that it will not work; restrict post requires manual
>intervention and that will cost a lot of overhead; many posts will be
>blocked and in the end no one will be happy. The one thing that can be
>done on the jp.freebsd.org side is filtering more agressively like the
>freebsd.org mx records do. Also these days end users should have
>enabled spam filters, mostly that is an option through the ISP they
>use, and imo people cannot live without some kind of filtering anymore,
>and that will only get worse (and worse; and worse).
>
>>
>>>> > Adding restrict_post actually is a lot of work on the admins since
>>>> > someone has to handle all the bounced e-mails.
>>>>
>>>> I think we can simply ignore them (>/dev/null).
>>>>
>>>> If you have better idea to stop deliver spam,
>>>> please let me know.
>>>
>>>Most of the FreeBSD developers when we have had discussions on spam
>>> recently
>>
>> "discussions" sounds good.
>>
>> I think we are same on this point:
>>   "how to make it easy for new people to get started with FreeBSD?"
>>
>
>We should provide proper help to the people that have questions and do
>the thing we can do (implement some level of filtering at our side by
>using blacklists or something).
>
>> but the conclusion is different.  You say "open the door (with
>> gatekeeper)"
>> I say "close the door until you examine the newcomer is a human".
>
>I'd say; open a can of people that can help you manage this and you are
>welcome to put this into production ;-)
>
>>
>> I think that it is policy problem, so jp admins need to have public
>> hearing.
>> Will this PR cause their action? I hope.
>
>I do not think this will cause postmaster at jp.freebsd.org to start doing
>something with it. This mailinglist, nor any of the others are for that
>specific reason. you should contact them immediatly...
>
>>
>>>have concluded that the spam problem is so large and extent, that the
>>> only
>>>real solution is for the receiver to block spam.
>>
>> well, we have to write easy-setup-guide of spam-filter
>> for beginners, and have to shout to them
>> "Wait! set up your filter before you post!"
>
>Right, and that people should not drive too hard since they will
>get traffic fines and that they should not steal, kill and such..
>impossible :-)
>
>> #----------------------------------------------------------#
>> # Takeo Hashimoto.                             sempre ff.  #
>> #----------------------------------------------------------#
>>
>
>-- 
>Kind regards,
>
>   Remko Lodder  ** remko at elvandar.org
>        FreeBSD  ** remko at FreeBSD.org
#----------------------------------------------------------#
# Takeo Hashimoto.         It's impossible, ...but doable. #
#----------------------------------------------------------#