Rework of theFreeBSDwebsite[was:FreeBSD'sVisualIdentity:Outdated?]

[Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg]

Chris Zumbrunn wrote:
> 
> On Feb 14, 2005, at 12:39 PM, Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg wrote:
> 
>> Chris Zumbrunn wrote:
>> [snip]
>>
>>> Again, my point was, you can create two billion different 
>>> incarnations of FreeBSD logos with pointy horns and tails - none of 
>>> them will ever beat Beastie or its silhouette as the strategically 
>>> most valuable logo choice.
>>
>> No, its not. It may very well be the historically or emotionally most 
>> valuable logo, but it is not the strategically most valuable logo.
>> But then again, I guess that all depends on what kind of strategy you 
>> live by.
>  
> Exactly! It depends on the kind of strategy! Sticking with Beastie as 
> FreeBSD's logo fits FreeBSD's strategy best! 

If the current logo is what fits FreeBSD's strategy best, then Im 
barking up the wrong tree. I should put all my efforts into 
changing FreeBSD's strategy instead of the logo.

> The FreeBSD beastie logo needs to be cleaned up so that its
 > appearance is professional - which I proofed can be done.

A matter of opinion. As I believe I have explained earlier, I do 
not find your logo professional. No offense.

>>> FreeBSD has no need to disassociate itself from its BSD history. To 
>>> the contrary, it's "corporate identity" needs to celebrate that 
>>> association. My little pointy horns and tails might be pretty, but 
>>> they are not enough. Beastie always wins. No professional logo 
>>> designer in their right mind would ever suggest to the FreeBSD 
>>> project to drop that logo.
>>
>>
>> I beg to differ, I think that even an amateur logo designer would 
>> immediatly suggest that Beastie takes its rightfull place as mascot, 
>> and a new logo is created.
> 
> An amateur logo designer, yes - but not a pro!

Notice that I said *even* an amateur, which implies that a pro 
would most certainly do it too. This discussion is already just 
marginally keeping a level that Im willing to accept, if it sinks 
down to a battle of marking words, I will withdraw.

>> The reason for this is simple. Beastie *is not a good logo*!
>> It does not scale well to different sizes. It does not work well in 
>> print. The copyright is not owned by the FreeBSD project. Beastie is 
>> not a symbol of FreeBSD alone, but for all BSD's and in part even UNIX 
>> in general.
>  
> I believe all these issues have been discussed and resolved on this list 
> during the last few days. The new Beastie silhouette scales and prints 
> well, the copyright holders are approving of FreeBSD's use of Beastie, 
> the FreeBSD foundation already own trademarks for the word FreeBSD. What 
> more can you wish for?

As stated, I do not feel that the Beastie silhouette qualifies.
Copyright approval or not, the copyright holder can at any time 
withdraw that approval and leave the project hanging. No serious 
project, corporation or company would even consider using a logo 
that they didnt fully own!
What the *word* trademark has to do with this discussion I do not 
understand. We have afaik never been discussing the name of the 
project, have we?

>> A good logo you should be able to draw freehand on a piece of paper in 
>> a minute or less, and it should still be recognizable. Beastie is far 
>> to complex. Im willing to bet that not many of us would come up with 
>> something that looks like Beastie and still looks good, partly because 
>> we are not artist but mostly because Beastie just isnt easy to draw.
>  
> Where did you ever hear that?  A good logo is instantly recognizable - 
> not "still recognizable after an amateur scribbles it down on a piece of 
> paper".
> 
>> If people could just put their emotional luggage aside, Im sure this 
>> discussion would never have taken place.
>  
> Yep!  And there are more important things to do than to argue about if a 
> new logo should have two horns and a tail or a fork and two horns: white 
> papers, success stories, good media coverage...  Producing these 
> materials is the hard work, not packaging them up in a professional 
> design - that's cheap and easy. Only talk is even cheaper.

Im really trying to explain this. Maybe its because Im not a 
native english speaker or maybe we just have very different point 
of views. Whatever the reason, I cant seem to get it trough!
You can produce all the success stories, white papers, TCO and 
ROI numbers, stats and graphs and commercial crap you want. As 
long as it looks like something a bunch of teenagers slapped 
together in MS Paint, you will not get media coverage and no 
serious company will listen to you! The facts may be correct, but 
if presented in a bad way, nobody will care about them.

Im not a programmer. I cant contribute to the project in form of 
code. Im not rich, so I cant really contribute in forms of 
donations or hardware either. However, I, and many like me, are 
willing to contribute time and effort in trying to improve 
FreeBSD's image, so that the people that do know how to code can 
go back to doing exactly that without having to worry about 
things like PR and marketing. If I can spend one day on marketing 
to save even a few hours of a programmers time so he can spend it 
programming, I think its worth it. Dont you?
If you could show me one important thing that needs to be done 
that I am capable of doing, and that would really help the 
project, let me know and I will drop the logo debate and attend 
to that instead. I have not been able to find such a thing, 
therefor Im still trying to show the world what a great os 
FreeBSD really is, but frankly, the unwillingness of some people 
to accept that help really starts to wear me down.

--
R