Instead of, why not...

Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg listsub at
Sat Feb 12 15:59:04 PST 2005

cpghost at wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 12, 2005 at 10:52:03PM +0100, Roger 'Rocky' Vetterberg wrote:
>>As a mascot, Beastie would beat the gecko with a big stick. In a 
>>logo-contest, Beastie would be at the recieving end of previously 
>>mentioned stick.
> It depends how it is designed. Perhaps a good professional designer
> would come up with a simplified Beastie, that would be a perfect
> logo, yet still represent a large portion of the BSD community.

I have never argued against Beastie per se, its just that the current 
"logo" is not as good as it could be. The logo may perfectly well be a 
daemon, as long as it has a professional design. Im sure that if the 
logo contest happens, a majority of the contributions will present 
Beastie, in one way or another.

>>>If the FreeBSD Project starts seriously thinking this way,
>>>then there's something rotten in it.
>>Please, please, please explain how you came to that conclusion.
> There's a lot of discussion going on about secondary stuff
> like logos and so, while a lot of things needs to be fixed
> in RELENG_5 (or CURRENT). But please read on.

Im not a programmer. I do not have the skills needed to contribute by 
fixing even the simpliest bugs. However, I do love FreeBSD and I try 
to contribute in any way I can. One of them being improving the image 
of FreeBSD. The people that knows how to code and fix bugs should be 
allowed to do that instead of thinking about the image of the project, 
and thats what Im trying to allow them to do.
If my contributions are not welcome, then FreeBSD has truely become 
the elitist playground many are accusing it of.

>>I fail to see why everyone thinks that having a decent image to show 
>>corporate suits automatically means the quality of the project would 
>>suffer? Am I missing something here?
> Are we there to please *some* suits? The only point that the
> Beastie opponents offer is that some companies may be scared
> away from providing FreeBSD drivers of their hardware, because
> of the current logo (I'm sorry to repeat it here: we do have
> a logo, even if it's not official or canonized as such).

Im not saying the current logo scares them *away* from the project, Im 
saying that the current logo does nothing to help *attract* them to 
the project.

> How many corps are now providing drivers or are thinking about
> doing so? Not so many. And if you take the little number that
> remains, how many of these will have a management that really
> cares about the form of the logo?

I think you underestimate the value of a professional image.
Why do you think big corporations spend millions of dollars on logos 
and company profiles?

> After all, FreeBSD has always been a technical project and
> one if its greatest strengths has been to stay away from
> corporatism und marketroids. Things are really going down
> the drain if we start to have discussions like these.

I think there is a difference between "staying away" and "alienate".
FreeBSD should stay technically oriented, but that does not mean that 
we have to fight everything remotely connected to good marketing.
FreeBSD should not let marketing and corporatism control its decisions 
in any way, but that doesnt mean we cant improve in those areas if it 
means no sacrifies in others.

>>But, just to make it clear, if someone tries to remove Beastie as the 
>>projects mascot, I will not silently accept it! Beastie is part of 
>>BSD's heritage and will most likely always be associated with BSD and 
>>UNIX. No logo contest in the world can change that!
> Logo contests are not a problem per se. It's their outcomes
> that worries me (and a lot of other people as well, if you
> judge by the online petition that's circulating right now).

I do not think that the petition was presented in a correct way.
The creator made it sound like someone was attempting to ban Beastie 
from being associated with BSD in any way, which is not even remotely 


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