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Sat, 08 Aug 2026 05:36:09 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Discussion List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-virtualization List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-virtualization@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: =?UTF-8?B?QXNpeWUgU2FyxLF5xLFsZMSxeg==?= Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2026 13:35:58 +0100 X-Gm-Features: AUfX_mwGovUDR_3ZQDMbDB13RKPEA9KO0VDque0saHCn8bcExJDz17BB7onZTuY Message-ID: Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_Proposal_=E2=80=94_Seamless_Windows_Application_Virtua?= =?UTF-8?Q?lization_via_bhyve?= To: freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000096341e0658885d73" X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.35 / 15.00]; R_MIXED_CHARSET(1.25)[subject]; ARC_ALLOW(-1.00)[google.com:s=arc-20260327:i=1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.60)[-0.601]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20251104]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4864::/56]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROMTLD(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::112d:from] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4hHL9C3dVCz3Qbm X-Spamd-Bar: --- --00000000000096341e0658885d73 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for the feedback Actually what I had in mind is closer to how WSL2 works on Windows: it runs a real Linux kernel inside a lightweight Hyper-V VM, but the user never manages the VM directly file sharing, networking, and even GUI apps (via WSLg) are fully integrated, so it feels native. I'd love something like that for FreeBSD + Windows apps: bhyve running a minimal Windows VM in the background, but the user just does qemu-bhyve install adobe and interacts with the app almost like a native FreeBSD program =E2=80=94 no manual VM management, no VNC. Your container/jail idea= for file access sounds like a great way to get part of that seamlessness without needing full window integration. Regular Wine can't run Adobe or Teams reliably because of missing Win32 API coverage, which is exactly why I think a real Windows kernel (even a minimal one) is needed rather than translation 8 A=C4=9Fu 2026 Cmt 13:18 tarihinde Mario Marietto = =C5=9Funu yazd=C4=B1: > >Yes, I know about Wine, but Wine tries to replicate Windows APIs which > often causes compatibility >bugs or performance overhead. My idea with > bhyve was closer to a lightweight virtualized Windows >kernel operating i= n > the background, where the GUI windows are seamlessly integrated into the > >FreeBSD desktop environment (like seamless mode in VirtualBox or WSLg in > Linux). I thought bhyve >could achieve better raw hardware compatibility > for specific professional Windows apps. Example > >Adobe > > Your idea is intriguing me,but probably not in the same way you are > thinking about it. In my vision I would keep the way wine works almost > intact,but I would use plane bhyve or qemu accelerated with bhyve instead > of wine,so that we can have something like this : > > qemu-bhyve install or run "application". > > The tool (for example Adobe) will be installed inside a sandbox after > having issued "install" or it can be run in the same way. And you can hav= e > direct access to the files installed without accessing inside the vm with > vnc viewer,but easier,we can install a container (podman ? a jail ? ). It > sounds nice to me. > > ERRATA CORRIGE : we can install the desired tool directly inside a > container (podman ? a jail ? sshfs-win ? > > > https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/windows-drive-mapping-to-freebsd-direc= tory-fails-with-sshfs-win.96474/ > > What do you think ? > > On Sat, Aug 8, 2026 at 12:32=E2=80=AFPM Asiye Sar=C4=B1y=C4=B1ld=C4=B1z <= asiyee994@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Yes, I know about Wine, but Wine tries to replicate Windows APIs which >> often causes compatibility bugs or performance overhead. My idea with bh= yve >> was closer to a lightweight virtualized Windows kernel operating in the >> background, where the GUI windows are seamlessly integrated into the >> FreeBSD desktop environment (like seamless mode in VirtualBox or WSLg in >> Linux). I thought bhyve could achieve better raw hardware compatibility = for >> specific professional Windows apps. Example Adobe >> >> 8 A=C4=9Fu 2026 Cmt 11:30 tarihinde Mario Marietto >> =C5=9Funu yazd=C4=B1: >> >>> ---> have you tried wine11? >>> >>> I think he wants to "duplicate" the look and feel and the exterior >>> working of wine,but using bhyve at the place of wine ? Did I understand >>> correctly ? >>> >>> On Sat, Aug 8, 2026 at 12:17=E2=80=AFPM Tomek CEDRO = wrote: >>> >>>> have you tried wine11? >>>> >>>> -- >>>> CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info >>>> >>>> On Sat, Aug 8, 2026, 00:22 Asiye Sar=C4=B1y=C4=B1ld=C4=B1z >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I've been thinking about a potential enhancement to bhyve that could >>>>> make Windows application compatibility much smoother for FreeBSD desk= top >>>>> users. >>>>> Currently, running Windows applications (e.g., Adobe products) >>>>> requires manually setting up a full Windows VM in bhyve =E2=80=94 cre= ating disk >>>>> images, configuring UEFI/BIOS, installing drivers, and manually manag= ing >>>>> the guest OS. This works, but it's a heavy, manual process compared t= o >>>>> solutions like Wine/Proton on Linux or Parallels' seamless mode on ma= cOS. >>>>> What if bhyve offered a more automated, "appliance-style" workflow: >>>>> the user supplies their own Windows installation ISO (and their own >>>>> license), and bhyve handles VM provisioning, NT kernel boot configura= tion, >>>>> and required virtio/driver setup automatically =E2=80=94 with minimal= manual steps. >>>>> Since the user brings their own ISO and license, this avoids any lice= nsing >>>>> or redistribution concerns on the project's side. Ideally, this could >>>>> eventually extend toward seamless window integration (running individ= ual >>>>> Windows apps like Adobe software without exposing the full Windows >>>>> desktop), similar to what VMware Fusion or Parallels offer on macOS. >>>>> I understand this raises real challenges =E2=80=94 driver signing, GP= U >>>>> passthrough for apps like Adobe's Creative Suite, and the significant >>>>> engineering effort seamless integration would require compared to a >>>>> standard full-VM setup. >>>>> Is this something the core team has considered, or is it already >>>>> covered by existing tools (e.g., vm-bhyve, or work in progress)? I'd >>>>> appreciate your perspective on whether this is a realistic direction = for >>>>> bhyve, or whether the complexity outweighs the benefit compared to ju= st >>>>> using a standard full VM setup. >>>>> Thank you for your time and for your work on FreeBSD. >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Mario. >>> >> > > -- > Mario. > > > -- > Mario. > --00000000000096341e0658885d73 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks for the feedback Actually what I had in mind is cl= oser to how WSL2 works on Windows: it runs a real Linux kernel inside a lig= htweight Hyper-V VM, but the user never manages the VM directly=C2=A0 file = sharing, networking, and even GUI apps (via WSLg) are fully integrated, so = it feels native.
I'd love something like that for Free= BSD + Windows apps: bhyve running a minimal Windows VM in the background, b= ut the user just does qemu-bhyve install adobe and interacts with the app a= lmost like a native FreeBSD program =E2=80=94 no manual VM management, no V= NC. Your container/jail idea for file access sounds like a great way to get= part of that seamlessness without needing full window integration.
Regular Wine can't run Adobe or Teams reliably because = of missing Win32 API coverage, which is exactly why I think a real Windows = kernel (even a minimal one) is needed rather than translation
8 A=C4=9Fu 2026 Cmt 13:18 tarihinde Mario Marietto <marietto2008@gmail.com> =C5=9F= unu yazd=C4=B1:
>Yes, I know about Wine, = but Wine tries to replicate Windows APIs which=20 often causes compatibility >bugs or performance overhead. My idea with= =20 bhyve was closer to a lightweight virtualized Windows >kernel operating= =20 in the background, where the GUI windows are seamlessly integrated into=20 the >FreeBSD desktop environment (like seamless mode in VirtualBox or=20 WSLg in Linux). I thought bhyve >could achieve better raw hardware=20 compatibility for specific professional Windows apps. Example
>= ;Adobe

Your idea is intriguing me,but probably not= in the same way you are thinking about it. In my vision I would keep the w= ay wine works almost intact,but I would use plane bhyve or qemu accelerated= with bhyve instead of wine,so that we can have something like this :
=

qemu-bhyve install or run "application".=C2= =A0

The tool (for example Adobe) will be installed= inside a sandbox after having issued "install" or it can be run = in the same way. And you can have direct access to the files installed with= out accessing inside the vm with vnc viewer,but easier,we can install a con= tainer (podman ? a jail ? ). It sounds nice to me.

ERRATA CORRIGE : we can install the desired tool directly inside a contain= er (podman ? a jail ? sshfs-win ?=C2=A0

https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/windows-drive-mapping-to-freebsd-d= irectory-fails-with-sshfs-win.96474/

What do y= ou think ?

On Sat, Aug 8, 2026 at 12:32=E2=80=AFPM Asiye Sar=C4=B1y=C4= =B1ld=C4=B1z <asiyee994@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes, I know about Wi= ne, but Wine tries to replicate Windows APIs which often causes compatibili= ty bugs or performance overhead. My idea with bhyve was closer to a lightwe= ight virtualized Windows kernel operating in the background, where the GUI = windows are seamlessly integrated into the FreeBSD desktop environment (lik= e seamless mode in VirtualBox or WSLg in Linux). I thought bhyve could achi= eve better raw hardware compatibility for specific professional Windows app= s. Example Adobe=C2=A0

8 A=C4=9Fu 2026 Cmt 11:30 tarihinde Mario Marietto &l= t;marietto2008@gmail.com> =C5=9Funu yazd=C4=B1:
---> ha= ve you tried wine11?

I think he wants to "dup= licate" the look and feel and the exterior working of wine,but using b= hyve at the place of wine ? Did I understand correctly ?

On Sat, Aug 8= , 2026 at 12:17=E2=80=AFPM Tomek CEDRO <tomek@cedro.info>= ; wrote:
have you tried wine11?

--
CeDeR= OM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info

On Sat, Aug 8= , 2026, 00:22 Asiye Sar=C4=B1y=C4=B1ld=C4=B1z <asiyee994@gma= il.com> wrote:
I've been thinking about a potential enhancemen= t to bhyve that could make Windows application compatibility much smoother = for FreeBSD desktop users.
Currently, running Windows appl= ications (e.g., Adobe products) requires manually setting up a full Windows= VM in bhyve =E2=80=94 creating disk images, configuring UEFI/BIOS, install= ing drivers, and manually managing the guest OS. This works, but it's a= heavy, manual process compared to solutions like Wine/Proton on Linux or P= arallels' seamless mode on macOS.
What if bhyve = offered a more automated, "appliance-style" workflow: the user su= pplies their own Windows installation ISO (and their own license), and bhyv= e handles VM provisioning, NT kernel boot configuration, and required virti= o/driver setup automatically =E2=80=94 with minimal manual steps. Since the= user brings their own ISO and license, this avoids any licensing or redist= ribution concerns on the project's side. Ideally, this could eventually= extend toward seamless window integration (running individual Windows apps= like Adobe software without exposing the full Windows desktop), similar to= what VMware Fusion or Parallels offer on macOS.
I u= nderstand this raises real challenges =E2=80=94 driver signing, GPU passthr= ough for apps like Adobe's Creative Suite, and the significant engineer= ing effort seamless integration would require compared to a standard full-V= M setup.
Is this something the core team has conside= red, or is it already covered by existing tools (e.g., vm-bhyve, or work in= progress)? I'd appreciate your perspective on whether this is a realis= tic direction for bhyve, or whether the complexity outweighs the benefit co= mpared to just using a standard full VM setup.
Thank= you for your time and for your work on FreeBSD.


--
Ma= rio.


--
Ma= rio.


--
Mario.
--00000000000096341e0658885d73--