From nobody Thu Dec 11 17:17:44 2025 X-Original-To: questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4dRzmq01H5z6K4MT for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2025 17:17:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R13" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4dRzmp6bJQz40VX; Thu, 11 Dec 2025 17:17:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1765473466; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=kfSdon3zmzY4lzvh1DIwcfmA1DiWZFtJxIFzmh4dBLA=; b=kly5+OkuoO67Nhq8W7QTmWj8Lt7MImigCJcsQJgT3UhGF+7yYKsOSunCBgoK+EEyOFvbxz TJvy9+Oa0Fk1PPVhK61uYqTKBkXzEF4TP8xUjuP9+6TAfAWJSWkIUfDEUDM8dnjgNeHgYL YA0FVYrkJTSLmqliCtbbFIuwtrAF5TLmq7vYuZSbVqjXZ5UlmDYA0/YSGRZgsB6XjLnIXr ASEj50Ekt/Nlae3G3XzTxx1OSnQ7ap1gHbhIf/e5+REnQgN6TgKQ/7QzXq3AmYvsftX5Ml HoVWx2zt4B+OSrdoRLcSQOhKTrTSfmfJFcmLqekl1eF0ki3cSkM1p6UBDsHgYg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1765473466; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=kfSdon3zmzY4lzvh1DIwcfmA1DiWZFtJxIFzmh4dBLA=; b=f8wWVkObMWiGzVQV3TyLneHQ2386j9TnM5H4Zhh2qN2pl+p2w90Zv1Itixv9XjT62uHzfV 2Cl+foIoE/s9OPtYp+VszMusYWsuPGop6IpKeAUdfo5JO60t1CwHSBDMxdJE0bcQMqE0aO LlOKbqeQ8beRuP3HPwLlxj+pfkiKlqHj3JoZ9K+C04R5ESiyBVC2FheEeaU1O3NOHHyHU8 crMrwTGGh28dfBCbWHLib80d8mgPtJQT3AIiqCejwjMUBqoZzv9RYyORMki8qhwLyKcJFZ EYMyOAE3DmMEFfpAymqCJhvH+bpQiDtSnzSMYIxA+T2ExxRZzqF/hlYYRFKNHQ== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1765473466; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=kh5qiXGxs8lqK5QkX8X1xHj9uGZ7yOr0MVb2PpjWekRcBdSuZAcX7s7PfDYS02Jll9eOcg pu66LJ9vGT+pjlZpolWk5l4zybTDMtvLPnK8paS2muDTFdTba1uRESf48zh0TH9oqRk0Dj kbQdjJQF/VfqTWJWzNC1Dy8d61pLnXz6ltQm0wmDh+Gk5O335zK0aT1vVo8GctGRwyUxSL mW9uqDOM3FPZwPYhYoT2gIOWt0hFgDiczKWJgqZDZet8kQFZiaaO1ZSfayjrLSSMPQJk6o wLkDyKoYZXqGDeFoJbk7SjAvj7aOA11PXTCbb6rYvS2SjZtSHKmCumsg5nKwrQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from ltc.des.dev (lfbn-nan-1-698-103.w86-236.abo.wanadoo.fr [86.236.35.103]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: des) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4dRzmp4td6zGt5; Thu, 11 Dec 2025 17:17:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from des@freebsd.org) Received: by ltc.des.dev (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 0CD498EC6D; Thu, 11 Dec 2025 18:17:44 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= To: Sad Clouds Cc: Lexi Winter , questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Trying to understand base system packages In-Reply-To: <20251211123858.9d0291a10688d91ad7a15d52@gmail.com> (Sad Clouds's message of "Thu, 11 Dec 2025 12:38:58 +0000") References: <20251205122830.cb88058f193987b47a95a77c@gmail.com> <20251205134510.6fae5caf@dorfdsl.de> <20251205143119.441cc1bd8722345d074a4480@gmail.com> <16e766b9-f442-4cef-a991-c940f6b8182a@gmail.com> <20251207081139.7e2f65b97b4c089ac0add431@gmail.com> <20251210203319.c248921c4e6aca9ba07458ae@gmail.com> <20251211093606.eade25c5f5c65277120d2f6e@gmail.com> <86ecp1cnji.fsf@ltc.des.dev> <20251211112643.c8778646e28c8ce70d6a0ea2@gmail.com> <868qf9cj05.fsf@ltc.des.dev> <20251211123858.9d0291a10688d91ad7a15d52@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2025 18:17:44 +0100 Message-ID: <86qzt1aqfb.fsf@ltc.des.dev> List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sad Clouds writes: > OK I respect your views, however based on your experience, which > software methodology would you employ for your own projects? And > let's assume these are complex projects which can take 12 months to > complete and you have complete freedom to make your own decisions on > everything. Some variation on Agile, which as Poul-Henning Kamp once pointed out is merely a codification of how F/OSS has always done things. It depends on the size of the team and the relationship with the stakeholders. And yes, like you, I've seen Agile done very, very badly, but I don't blame the method (which has worked well for me) for the shortcomings of the people involved. (I've had to work with a team whose manager constantly demanded detailed documentation for my components while refusing to provide any for their own because =E2=80=9CAgile means no documentation=E2=80=9D. He also refuse= d to let me speak to his developers because =E2=80=9CAgile means I shield my team from distractions=E2=80=9D or even relay my questions to them. I eventually cut= the Gordian knot by =E2=80=9Caccidentally=E2=80=9D running into his team at lun= ch.) Note that Agile does not mean you don't write specifications or tests or documentation. It just means you do it repeatedly and continuously and incorporate the lessons you learn from one iteration into your plans for the next. DES --=20 Dag-Erling Sm=C3=B8rgrav - des@FreeBSD.org