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Mon, 17 Apr 2023 13:00:21 -0400 Received: from oceanview.tundraware.com (oceanview.tundraware.com [45.55.60.57]) by r1.h.in.socketlabs.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Mon, 17 Apr 2023 13:00:21 -0400 Received: from [192.168.0.2] (ozzie.tundraware.com [75.145.138.73]) (authenticated bits=0) by oceanview.tundraware.com (8.17.1/8.17.1) with ESMTPSA id 33HH06nd031390 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Mon, 17 Apr 2023 12:00:07 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from tundra@tundraware.com) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2023 12:00:01 -0500 List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.10.0 Subject: Re: Docker Content-Language: en-US To: "Steve O'Hara-Smith" Cc: FreeBSD Mailing List References: <20230329053443.6ADA6B6AFED5@dhcp-8e64.meeting.ietf.org> <6002f636-310b-a9fd-b82f-346618976983@timpreston.net> <20230412150350.12f97eb2c9dd566b8c8702d2@sohara.org> <1535315680.2770963.1681309684072@mail.yahoo.com> <20230412155252.5e38ea4728bd52dc798852fc@sohara.org> <1d0a7ed1-9330-49df-9b66-9ee4387de511@app.fastmail.com> <8f3a86806377c2c92039eaf2765f5b85862de178.camel@riseup.net> <858859542.4652196.1681696294734@mail.yahoo.com> <92f6a9df-fd1e-9411-6093-fc8a145add17@tundraware.com> <20230417153824.3409e86dd8ad27ddc39878b8@sohara.org> From: Tim Daneliuk In-Reply-To: <20230417153824.3409e86dd8ad27ddc39878b8@sohara.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.6.4 (oceanview.tundraware.com [45.55.60.57]); Mon, 17 Apr 2023 12:00:07 -0500 (CDT) X-TundraWare-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-TundraWare-MailScanner-ID: 33HH06nd031390 X-TundraWare-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-TundraWare-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam (whitelisted), SpamAssassin (not cached, score=-5.194, required 6, autolearn=not spam, ALL_TRUSTED -1.00, BAYES_00 -1.90, NICE_REPLY_A -2.28, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE -0.01) X-TundraWare-MailScanner-From: tundra@tundraware.com X-Spam-Status: No X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Q0YG80MB2z44gD X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:53658, ipnet:142.0.180.0/22, country:US] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On 4/17/23 09:38, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > The common point where any methodology fails is when those using it > fail to realise that it is a tool for achieving a result and not a goal in > itself. If it gets in the way and doesn't help it's the wrong tool, this is > not cured by getting increasingly doctrinal about it. +1 I believe that agile is a useful implementation strategy (and use it all the time), but it's not great at developing the initial requirements. It leads to agile teams getting halfway down the delivery cycle and then suddenly discovering everything they've done has to be rewritten to become event-driven or some similarly large miss of expectations. I prefer waterfall discovery of requirements and agile implementations. It doesn't have to be perfect or 100% complete, but it's shocking how many waterfall discoveries stall, not because of process limitations, but because the stakeholders haven't agreed on desired outcomes (aka the "mission"). In this sense, waterfall requirements gathering forces people to declare *what* they want fully enough to build a first instance. *How* it gets build is very much a beneficiary of agile methodologies.