From nobody Thu Apr 13 11:31:02 2023 X-Original-To: freebsd-questions@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Pxy8W3Bsqz44pqV for ; Thu, 13 Apr 2023 11:31:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marietto2008@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yw1-x1131.google.com (mail-yw1-x1131.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1131]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1D4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Pxy8W0SbDz4LVm for ; Thu, 13 Apr 2023 11:31:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marietto2008@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-yw1-x1131.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-5491fa028adso599202617b3.10 for ; Thu, 13 Apr 2023 04:31:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1681385498; x=1683977498; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=sBBNNETTYBSX4wc8u7X7N2NPbzbCBcrQFNa+PCZRreY=; b=mno/2zdcxNlWB8s8t6ch29Tbznm3EoRNe8yHmWP9Lg/TNeaiHhjHLzNIkKOriYlYS5 9gTeTnmVsrSj37/Mw50XhcZALqZ8Bkp08RzmotrZ2VbHuGkCV03ubUjDUmUmQemPxYB1 Px9RWgn+2yNx2kcsiwSg5f/thfJ5tT+FZBTLNu2HdwcEg0CJ93WLsQVvcu71JSCnouC4 dsrhBi0lXJp8dm90fsT1I8Y6E2Ir/EwQMYXi9lZyf9jR/JZwPYXFd0X5wubIwi9D0Bz3 +TAC7kkKde8DDyyPnOqgkX/pU0BeLLGJmalDtJNKX/X/AEV8j4tBTCiYTzrLb2VuwO+p LAFA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1681385498; x=1683977498; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=sBBNNETTYBSX4wc8u7X7N2NPbzbCBcrQFNa+PCZRreY=; b=R1iNal/aLLGawh6jTiNHE0sZRhWLVGcRxAqlf88B91lPMh1M0Qm+W13tgj2Ul7EPl7 0Mi9PDkn1txax/0j+PGeOoJFmZF0jmsgZbX0WwVd/OHSQs5SWoZ3Vb2lfd2v2RfpUhTy MIAs9F2LGnUcxwtKAicY/bVEfpDY1uoPvd5nEGX4wtlPeP7I4SsYw3wZOikK3WnR9hAk 51Oh9uccnC9qegwS+a4MPIP2wawL5k0X2flKgCSOtWumADKSUoRIiSYbzzwYakzgrlds P0MinR9vWvneRZI7BnEUB1+3OPAbGPgafscyf7RY7SuodPoi3U2eX9z6W2qdnolspv0h 5Y+A== X-Gm-Message-State: AAQBX9cQf7XUmivHe/OQGfg+4rVozt3nvrhhXxNzKm3nfH07+MHLb1Hb 1IYU7v1ZUklWDffCYfuZBw25npNHCqepEYJ5uuW47Ptcija+OfAL X-Google-Smtp-Source: AKy350Y9JalXHwtOEhJcRzs3edZ9tPHP5NKYYuPlnknMAxmjmExqsWma2NebF+Yk8a+JcIQ+FMIyGDfHixLzbOjhSSA= X-Received: by 2002:a81:e443:0:b0:54c:fd7:476e with SMTP id t3-20020a81e443000000b0054c0fd7476emr1193353ywl.3.1681385498342; Thu, 13 Apr 2023 04:31:38 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: User questions List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-questions List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20230329053443.6ADA6B6AFED5@dhcp-8e64.meeting.ietf.org> <8E16D624-2655-4A10-844A-93E4F63E9859@gromit.dlib.vt.edu> <078a1cf8-7ae2-c593-615b-f5f37fa2b3eb@timpreston.net> <06be3a1e-9319-1a21-88b9-4f87328ee127@timpreston.net> <34b4b76e-1c41-4cfb-9e86-856f01e8abc9@app.fastmail.com> <6002f636-310b-a9fd-b82f-346618976983@timpreston.net> <20230412150350.12f97eb2c9dd566b8c8702d2@sohara.org> <1535315680.2770963.1681309684072@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: From: Mario Marietto Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2023 13:31:02 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Docker To: Alejandro Imass Cc: Paul Pathiakis , "Steve O'Hara-Smith" , Tim Preston , freebsd-questions Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000005bfb2e05f9361146" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Pxy8W0SbDz4LVm X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N --0000000000005bfb2e05f9361146 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The point of my argumentation is not if FreeBSD has or not good tools for containerizing and securing applications. It has. Point is that the users that don't know FreeBSD are tied to their own tools and rarely want to change them. Almost everyone wants to change. But trying,experimenting and changing something in the workflow is important,because every tool has bad and good sides. There are many docker images already to be used on the net and this will save a lot of time and effort and money for a lot of people. This is a fact. And I think that it happened because Docker is...good. FreeBSD has tools like docker,but the mass production of containerized images never happened. So,would we ask ourselves the reason ? Maybe something has not gone well. I use Linux and FreeBSD and I "love" both these systems. Linux has a larger user base than FreeBSD. A larger user base may mean more innovations in a small time,a faster bug correction and so on. I think that mostly advantages from the implementation of docker on FreeBSD will come from the user base. Mostly for those users that come from linux or other OS and that already use docker and kubernetes. I don't think those users are a small number. Those users could jump to FreeBSD if Docker / Kubernetes are implemented in FreeBSD. This could be the straw that broke the camel's back. You argue that the jails are working already great and that they should use them. I argue that the freebsd community could have a more tolerant behavior to the users that could jump to the FreeBSD world and they should not force them to learn only new technologies at first. To have some important tools which work on multiple systems means having a good business card. So,in the end I ask to myself and to you : FreeBSD needs to grow in terms of community ? Does it need to be populated by a bigger number of users that will come from another OS base community ? On Thu, Apr 13, 2023 at 10:17=E2=80=AFAM Alejandro Imass wrote: > > > On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 4:28=E2=80=AFPM Paul Pathiakis > wrote: > >> I believe the simplest thing would be to wrap jails or iocage in an >> interface that looks like and behaves Docker-like. >> >> > and Bastille! > > >> >> --=20 Mario. --0000000000005bfb2e05f9361146 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The point of my argumentation is not if FreeBSD has o= r not good tools for containerizing and securing applications. It has. Poin= t is that the users that don't know FreeBSD are tied to their own tools= and rarely want to change them. Almost everyone wants to change. But tryin= g,experimenting and changing something in the workflow is important,because= every tool has bad and good sides. There are many docker images already to= be used on the net and this will save a lot of time and effort and money f= or a lot of people. This is a fact. And I think that it happened because Do= cker is...good. FreeBSD has tools like docker,but the mass production of co= ntainerized images never happened. So,would we ask ourselves the reason ? M= aybe something has not gone well. I use Linux and FreeBSD and I "love&= quot; both these systems. Linux has a larger user base than FreeBSD. A larg= er user base may mean more innovations in a small time,a faster bug correct= ion and so on.

I think that mostly advantages= from the implementation of docker on FreeBSD will come from the user base.= Mostly=20 for those users that come from linux or other OS and that already use=20 docker and kubernetes. I don't think those users are a small number.=20 Those users could jump to FreeBSD if Docker / Kubernetes are implemented in FreeBSD. This could be the straw that broke the camel= 's back. You argue that the jails are working already great and = that they should use them. I argue that the freebsd community could have a = more tolerant behavior to the users that could jump to the FreeBSD world and th= ey should not force them to learn only new technologies at first. To have s= ome important tools which work on multiple systems means having a good business card. So,in the=20 end I ask to myself and to you : FreeBSD needs to grow in terms of co= mmunity ? Does it need to be populated by a bigger number of users t= hat will come from another OS base community ?

On= Thu, Apr 13, 2023 at 10:17=E2=80=AFAM Alejandro Imass <aimass@yabarana.com> wrote:=


On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 4:28=E2=80=AFPM Paul Pathiak= is <pathiaki2@y= ahoo.com> wrote:
I believe the simplest thing would be to wrap jail= s or iocage in an interface that looks like and behaves Docker-like.
<= div dir=3D"ltr">

and = Bastille!
=C2=A0


--
Mario.
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