Re: my isp has trouble with its own dhcp assignment

From: spellberg_robert <emailrob_at_risebroadband.net>
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2022 01:30:09 UTC
22_oct_30_sun 25.23.utc



[ to other readers :
     there is a question for you at the bottom of this post .
]



greetings , david ---

sorry for the delay ; my weeks are busy ones .



On 10/21/22 4:16 AM, David Christensen wrote:
> On 10/20/22 15:17, spellberg_robert wrote:> On 10/18/22 12:47 AM, David 
> Christensen wrote:
>>    when i reply to the list , should i "cc" to the poster , also ?
> 
> I CC the OP only if the OP requests it.
> 
> 

understood .



>>> Regarding getting text file contents into an e-mail message using a 
>>> graphical workstation, one method is to open the file in Mousepad, 
>>> Notepad, etc., select the desired text, copy the selected text to the 
>>> clipboard, switch to the Thunderbird message composition window, and 
>>> paste the clipboard contents.
>>>
>>
>>    ... the above generated an idea .
>>
>> i do not have the named "pad"s ;
>>    but , i tried the following and it worked .
>>
>> open the text_file in a firefox "new_tab" .
>> select from the ul_corner to the lr_corner .
>> <ctrl_c>
>> position the cursor in the thunderbird composition_window .
>> <ctrl_v>
> 
> 
> I have tried running FreeBSD desktops several times over the years.  It 
> was a lot of work and the experience was disappointing.  As much as I 
> would like a FreeBSD desktop, Debian with Xfce is easier to install and 
> more Xfce features are supported.
> 
> 

i thank you for volunteering the info ,
how_ever , i am one of those people who despise point_and_click ;
   in my case ,
   this is w/ a passion which i can_not even begin to describe .
[ are those squiggles intended to be intuitively_obvious ? ]
in my experience , xterm/xclock are the only p_&_c which work well .



>>> 1.  What is the location of your Internet service point?
>>>
>>
>> geographically , we are in rural mc_henry county , illinois , usa ,
> 
> 
> Okay.
> 
> 
>>> 2.  Who is your ISP?  Please provide a URL.
>>>
>>
>> https://www.risebroadband.com
> 
> 
> Okay.
> 
> 
>>> 3.  What Internet service plan do you have?  Please provide a URL.
>>>
>>
>> https://www.risebroadband,com/residential
> 
> 
> Okay.
> 
> 
>>> 4.  What is the make and model of the access device provided by the 
>>> ISP?   Please provide a URL.
>>>
>>
>> if you mean the roof_top antenna , then i do not know .
> 
> 
> It would be good for you to know the make and model of your antenna.  I 
> suspect it functions as a modem.
> 
> 

i suspect the same .

perhaps , the isp's customer_service phone_clerks have_been trained
   to answer such a highly_technical question ;
   we shall see .



>>    if you mean the "thingy" , which the isp calls a "router" ,
>>    then we do not have one .
>> the gateway box is directly connected to the roof_top antenna ,
>>    with rj45 and poe .
>> the gateway does two things , packet_filtering and nat .
> 
> 
> While building your own gateway from scratch using a general-purpose OS 
> is a useful exercise, it is an ISP's worst nightmare.  If they attempt 
> to support you, they will struggle.  Most ISP's will simply refuse to 
> support anything except their own equipment.
> 
> 

a priori , let me be clear ; i do --not-- believe that
   you meant that which is suggested by your choice of words .

building these gateways is --not-- an "exercise" .
i have been doing things this way since my "dial_up" days .
they have worked well , always , until --this-- effort .

also , you are not aware [ thus , blame_less ] that
   this isp's idea of "support" is that answers to questions begin with :

   "first , click on `start'" .

i paid for "support" for , may_be , two months .
they do not know what to do with technically_proficient people ,
   such as , i suspect , most of the readers of these fbsd lists .



> I recommend that you buy or lease a residential gateway from your ISP, 
> connect it to the antenna, and get it working reliably (with or without 
> support from your ISP).  Then, connect #5 in a router-behind-router 
> configuration (e.g. connect #5 to the LAN side of the ISP gateway).  Now 
> you can play with #5 all you want, and you still have a working Internet 
> connection the whole time.  This is what I do.
> 
> 

this will not work .

all this does is to shift the failure from my box to theirs .

this isp can [ and does ] take --days--
   to fix a "tower_problem" , as they call it ;
   presumably , this affects --many-- customers .
when [ not "if" ] their device fails ,
   then i am "down" for an in_determinate time ,
   while i wait for some "tech" , in a van ,
   to drive east , from the big city [ rockford ] ,
   across two county lines , to handle "tickets" , in this area .
in general , i need to be "up" 24/7 .
i suspect that a "static ip_address" will solve this dhcp problem ;
   but , i do not know
   [ i was going to inquire , today ;
       but , of course , they are closed on sundays
   ] .
i suspect that , if it is the solution , then
   it will be less expensive than multiple devices from the isp .

again , i believe that you meant well ; but , this is not "play" .

i presume that "#5" refers to natalie/natasha_11.3 .
please note_that : during this past week ,
   natalie/natasha was put back on its 12.3 config .
it has the same "rc.conf" over_rides , except for the console entries
   [ "kbd" , "font" , "cursor" , et_c . , remain defaulted ] .



>>> 5.  You seem to be discussing several computers -- a gateway 
>>> computer, a backup gateway computer, and several clients (presumably, 
>>> one is a graphical workstation with Thunderbird).  Please clarify how 
>>> many computers you have and their roles.
> 
>> in general , there are many machines , on 192.168.100.0/24 ,
>>    but , for now , only three are involved with the out_side world .
>> these are :
>>
>>    natasha    192.168.100.200        i386     8.1
>>    catherine    192.168.100.143        amd64    11.4
>>    113        192.168.100.113        amd64    11.3
>>
>>    natalie    192.168.100.201        amd64    11.3    as user
>>    natasha    192.168.100.200        amd64    11.3    as gateway
> 
>>> 6.  Please pick one computer and let us work on that one.  When that 
>>> is fixed, pick another computer and start a new thread.
>>>
>>
>> agreed .
> 
> 
> Let's work on #5.
> 
> 

as above , natalie/natasha_11.3 is , now , 12.3 .



>>> 7.  What is the make and model of the computer?  Which CPU?  How much 
>>> memory?  What storage devices?  Please provide URL(s).
>>>
>>
>> i build my own mid_tower boxen [ see below ] .
>>
>> the user boxen are i3/5/7 "skylake" , 64_GB ,
>>    1/2/4_TB seagate "constellation_es.3" .
> 
>> the new gateways are 16_GB , same seagate .
> 
> 
> Okay.
> 
> 
>>> 8.  Which FreeBSD installer did you use?  What questions were you 
>>> asked and how did you answer them?
>>>
>>
>> the one which is included
>>    with the applicable amd64/dvd or i386/cd image_file .
>>
>> uhhh , ... , all of them and honestly
>>    [ to the best of my under_standing ] .
>>
>> broadly_speaking , i install every_thing , including the ports_tree .
>> hard_drives are extensively partitioned , to make full back_ups faster .
> 
>> i want to be helpful , here ;
>>    if the above is in_sufficient , then please advise .
> 
> 
> I keep a plain text administrator log file for every computer.  I put 
> this file plus any system configuration files I create or modify into a 
> networked version control system (CVS).  I recommend that you do the same.
> 
> 
> Here is my log entry for a recent FreeBSD install.  I recommend that you 
> take notes like this whenever you install; they are invaluable for later 
> troubleshooting:
> 
> February 11, 2022
> 
> 1.  Use DQ67SW.  Insert FreeBSD-12.3-RELEASE-amd64 USB flash drive into
>      USB 2.0 port adjacent to FireWire port.  Insert Intel 520 Series
>      SSD 60 GB into upper rack.  Disconnect all other drive SATA cables
>      except for optical drive.  Boot FreeBSD installer:
> 
>          FreeBSD - Welcome to FreeBSD    Boot Multi user
>          FreeBSD Installer - Welcome     Install
>          Keymap Selection                Continue with default keymap
>          Set Hostname                    f4.tracy.holgerdanske.com
>          Distribution Selection          <unselect all options>
>          Partitioning                    Auto (ZFS)
>              Pool Type/Disks             stripe: 1 disk
>                                          ada0 INTEL SSDSC2CW060A3
>              Pool Name                   f4_zroot
>              Force 4K Sectors            YES
>              Encrypt Disks               YES
>              Partition Scheme            MBR (BIOS)
>              Swap Size                   2g
>              Mirror Swap                 YES
>              Encrypt Swap                YES
>              >>> Install                 Proceed with installation
>          ZFS Configuration
>              Last Chance!                YES
>              Enter a strong passphrase   ********
>              Re-enter password           ********
>          Root - New Password             ********
>          Retype New Password             ********
>          Network Configuration           em0
>          Configure IPv4                  Yes
>          Use DHCP                        Yes
>          Configure IPv6                  No
>          Search                          tracy.holgerdanske.com
>          IPv4 DNS #1                     192.168.5.1
>          IPv4 DNS #2                     208.67.222.222
>          CMOS clock set to UTC           Yes
>          Time Zone
>              Region                      America -- North and South
>              Country or region           United States of America
>              Zone                        Pacific
>          Time & Date - month, year, day  <verify>
>          Time & Data - time              <verify>
>          Services to start at boot       sshd, ntpdate, ntpd, powerd
>          System hardening options        <none>
>          Add users                       No
>          Final configuration             Exit
>          Open shell                      No
>          Complete                        Reboot
> 
>      Power down during POST.
> 
>      Remove installation media.
> 
> 

oddly enough , this is what i do [ every question , every answer ] ,
   except that i do this in pencil on two sheete of letter_size paper .
i was not about to type all of that in ,
   unless you asked for some_thing , specifically .

how did you generate this data ?
is the installer creating this , as a file , and not telling me ?
for me , a new box takes two days to create
   [ assemble parts , install os , edit config_files , et_c . ] .
any_thing which accelerates that process , ... .



>>> 9.  Please run the following commands and post your complete console 
>>> session -- prompt, commands entered, output printed:
>>>
>>> # freebsd-version ; uname -a
> 
>>> # cat /etc/rc.conf
> 
>> powerd_enable="YES"            # common
>> hostname="natasha.ntrprnr.com"
>> ipfilter_enable="YES"
>> ipnat_enable="YES"
>> ipmon_enable="YES"
>> ifconfig_em0="DHCP"
>> ipv4_addrs_re0="192.168.100.200/24"
>> sshd_enable="YES"            # common
>> ftpd_enable="YES"            # common
>> gateway_enable="YES"
>> keymap="us"                # common
>> keyrate="fast"                # common
>> cursor="blink"                # common
>> font8x16="iso-8x16.fnt"            # common
>> font8x14="iso-8x14.fnt"            # common
>> font8x8="iso-8x8.fnt"            # common
>> blanktime="NO"                # common
>> moused_enable="YES"            # common
>> dumpdev="AUTO"                # common
> 
> 
> Okay.
> 
> 
>>> 10. If the computer is graphical, which window manager or desktop 
>>> environment are you using?
> 
>>> 11. Are you using ports or packages?  What ports and/or packages have 
>>> you installed?
> 
>> packages .
> 
>> xorg            7.7_3        not_used ; never_configured
>> firefox            67.0.2_2,1    not_used
>> thunderbird        60.7.1        not_used
>> m4            1.4.18_1,1    not_used
> 
> 
> Okay.
> 
> 
>> natalie/natasha 11.3 has two rc.conf files :
>>     all development is done on natalie ; then ,
>>     change one sym_link , power_down , swap cables , boot as natasha ;
>>     same name , same 1918_address , make dhcp request .
>> when done testing ,
>>     change the sym_link , power_down , swap cables , boot as natalie .
>> the development process is fairly simple and
>>     this procedure mimics the expected future routine operation .
>>
>> note_that : when the 11.3 box is natasha ,
>>     then natasha 8.1 remains booted ,
>>     but , its network cables [ .200 , dhcp ] are plugged into 11.3 ;
>>     also , the natalie cable [ .201 ] is detached and un_connected .
> 
> 
> I install 2.5" SATA mobile racks in my machines and have a stack of 
> small 2.5" SATA SSD's, with one OS instance per SSD.  This makes it easy 
> to mix and match:
> 
> https://www.startech.com/en-us/hdd/hsb220sat25b
> 
> https://www.startech.com/en-us/hdd/s25slotr
> 
> 

a separate question :
   do you find "startech" plug_in cards to be reliable ?



> The fact that the MAC address remains constant when I boot one computer 
> with several different OS disks can confuse DHCP and DNS caching. 

i do not see these as issues .
if the entries are in_valid , then , replace them .
only natalie runs unbound or bind ;
   only natasha runs dhclient .
besides , there is only one os , on the hd .



> Therefore, I try to limit myself to one computer when experimenting with 
> OS's and I use IPv4 addresses rather than host names when experiementing.
> 
> 

again , choice of words [ i am not angry ] ; this is not an experiment .
there has been , only , one box , natalie/natasha ;
   once it works , then it will be cloned twice .
if i was in_sufficiently clear , then , i apologize .



>> --how_ever-- , when the user_machines are going through the 11.3 box ,
> 
> 
> To get #5 working as a gateway, I recommend that you dedicate the 
> machine to that purpose

already done ; from the beginning .



  and do a fresh install of
> FreeBSD-12.3-RELEASE-amd64.

created in 22_may ;
   re_installed during this past week , for an un_related reason .



   Unfortunately, the FreeBSD installer UI
> does not have an option to limit the amount of disk space used -- it 
> uses the whole disk.  Get a small SSD, USB flash drive, or SDHC card 
> ("16 GB" devices are more than adequate).  Keep meticulous notes.

always do .



   Use a
> version control system for your notes and any system configuration files 
> you touch.

no need for this .

many years ago , i created that which i call a "shadow" tree .
this tree replicates the entire directory_tree ;
   but , only for directories which have config_files .
an example :

   in /etc :

   rc.conf -> ../+shadow/etc/d.rc^^^^____rc__dot_conf/l.active

   in /+shadow/etc/d.rc^^^^____rc__dot_conf

   l.active ->

     d^^^__30w11____x86_64__f_12_3__natasha^^^^^____rc__dot_conf____03

t_bird's --stupid-- 72_column wrap_around reared its ugly head , here .

to revise ,
   copy d*03 to a like_named e*04 ; edit e*04 ; change the sym_link .
the carets fill unused chars in a fixed_width field .

by this means ,
   --all-- of --my-- config_files are in --one-- place , /+shadow
   [ if i do not change some_thing , then it does not get moved ] .

by extension ,
   there exists a "+shadow" directory
   at the top of every partition mount_point , where necessary
   [ e . g . , /var , because of named ] .

last , i create short shell variables for each location ;
   typing "set" helps to remind me of these .
also , some directories can be many levels deep .



   Use dd(1) to take raw binary images of the disk as you go,
> so that you can easily revert changes.
> 
> 

i suppose ;
   but , changing a sym_link strikes me as being easier and faster ,
   especially w/ command_line up_arrow "history" capability .
find a line which is substantially similar and edit a few chars ; done .



> I recommend these books:
> 
> https://mwl.io/nonfiction/os#af3e
> 
> https://mwl.io/nonfiction/networking#n4sa
> 
> 
> David
> 



at this point ,
   i come to why i stared at your post ,
   for over two hours , this morning ,
   before i commenced to writing .
the above is interesting and/or useful and
   there --are-- some ideas which will be added
   to my "if i ever find the time , then it would be nice if" list .

i have observed that you never address
   that which i believe to be my most important observation .
on natasha_11.3 ,
   when i type the "ifconfig add" command ,
   using the 69. address which was assigned to natasha_8.1 ,
   then natasha_11.3 works beautifully .
when i type the "ifconfig delete" command ,
   then natasha_11.3 reverts to working poorly ,
   because it has , only , the 172. address .
i am not the least bit convinced that
   this is not an important observation .
this is why i am prepared to spend some money
   [ in --this-- economy , yet ] ,
   on a so_called "static address" , for a_while , any_way ,
   just to see if it works .
if so , then i have eliminated the dhcp concept , entirely .

please do not get me wrong ;
   i appreciate the time which you have taken .
the nature of your questions led me to believe that
   you were going in a certain direction ;
   but , your response to my answers has gone else_where .
thus , i am confused , some_what .

would you care to add any_thing further to this
   or to any_thing else ?



to other readers :

would any_one care to comment on my "ifconfig" observation
   [ about 30 lines above ] or
   on any_thing else , in this thread ?

i have difficulty imagining that
   the dhcp designers have failed to consider the possibility of
   replacing failed hardware w/ backup hardware ,
   which backup hardware is identically configured .



tia

rob