From nobody Thu Jun 18 20:09:49 2026 X-Original-To: python@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ghBf757jtz6gcmL for ; Thu, 18 Jun 2026 20:09:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: from mxrelay.nyi.freebsd.org (mxrelay.nyi.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:3]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mxrelay.nyi.freebsd.org", Issuer "YR1" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4ghBf721C5z3rS0 for ; Thu, 18 Jun 2026 20:09:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1781813391; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=vlts8esUpC3mYhELyk7cD9Z9HYt4PCNyJ8mlBxv1qCs=; b=VhSC7UOYaISD5Biog2zBnkquirPkFyZwYPsOAtt0U6PIJn5+uJtxOVS5zJWgmIow9VsDWF kCEXJobdgx5ABGu1Jp2cwdF3V35yAzl67ThW6U0LtK6/nNPi7bvF4JQjMwd3H0CiXHuoqu nSpWTBWRVYISeTn1MR5L4TyCVaY1fdkTiACZqXYuY68aMMyb8W3NeuBCBJHx/y6/EKu+jn Cw7tbbqamF7dTDPgvaboUiqA8Iawl32TItIDZCu45I/oqG6kyNAN82X2BYGh/Rv8kJ55QM KfD9br9EKq6uh9+CMG0mjaZjawwsQrSdn1zNLMhvDCAfDA+cwsXgFEFgGuVyAQ== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1781813391; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=lFZ2ow77EPXwuZXC+OlqnWKTFVIGNPkY3rIXQsd3HqoOj4/WWGZ6jn5zxZBFzqG6iqv5Jl kne3qbaV3Px3+4RGeZYSnU27pw2cr3h1q2ePQEqJj9FXe0sICreTgJ0jkc7x3aFAXc0mPm IIy1uP1C+88xjtlNLtb6pxdQnu9qGibrwBSxciqqy8SivemXmXgrgSGYiNYhBY4YrZAoW1 qozPjMz4eeFtzA0Il1cayrrAMetLYc6BA/JTd5X2v4srYIejMQnipJzK80/YWziK5ATMMR MeaAcDJXMHOwDn0a3xGCTjnc/uVfqhLylKoQDFOofJPI6uiPiFaDg4zwLES/Qw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1781813391; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=vlts8esUpC3mYhELyk7cD9Z9HYt4PCNyJ8mlBxv1qCs=; b=kJnQ+jkF1myWD6lqazRDM4MMVCoEgWrpeA5LsuDiJc5x41+saTzCpf5G7hpvVEeJSkYyz+ 06uyuATMlHuj+aBGA6ZKymHg12gdngIob7VWknuoAkNfdhnwOxEeo3RQn+xZAH/d2BO9uw XO6QlWUoBM7D0w0y6Evv21PPXLw+AnrEHQPvUb2UQpCYNJPEFfsZhz31GaNweb3Xi3ioU2 tkULqSuUnvuYqW3YKSU1K5ovV723eiBFQlQGLVda1iLiM5ODDS/VnPNlfc0YmO9mwR2ubt zJ4cZcAh4Ss/JRYBFPEgRrcgTd0+tbAbF8Fy72GaoBm7cTqJaO9byXOtn2fb5w== Received: from kenobi.freebsd.org (kenobi.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::50:1d]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mxrelay.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4ghBf70vmZz1CTW for ; Thu, 18 Jun 2026 20:09:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: from kenobi.freebsd.org ([127.0.1.5]) by kenobi.freebsd.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 65IK9pgg071682 for ; Thu, 18 Jun 2026 20:09:51 GMT (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) Received: (from www@localhost) by kenobi.freebsd.org (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) id 65IK9pP8071681 for python@FreeBSD.org; Thu, 18 Jun 2026 20:09:51 GMT (envelope-from bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org) X-Authentication-Warning: kenobi.freebsd.org: www set sender to bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org using -f From: bugzilla-noreply@freebsd.org To: python@FreeBSD.org Subject: [Bug 285957] lang/python312 as default python Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2026 20:09:49 +0000 X-Bugzilla-Reason: AssignedTo X-Bugzilla-Type: changed X-Bugzilla-Watch-Reason: None X-Bugzilla-Product: Ports & Packages X-Bugzilla-Component: Individual Port(s) X-Bugzilla-Version: Latest X-Bugzilla-Keywords: tracking X-Bugzilla-Severity: Affects Some People X-Bugzilla-Who: mandree@FreeBSD.org X-Bugzilla-Status: In Progress X-Bugzilla-Resolution: X-Bugzilla-Priority: --- X-Bugzilla-Assigned-To: python@FreeBSD.org X-Bugzilla-Flags: maintainer-feedback+ exp-run? X-Bugzilla-Changed-Fields: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Bugzilla-URL: https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/ Auto-Submitted: auto-generated List-Id: FreeBSD-specific Python issues List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-python List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-python@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-python@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list MIME-Version: 1.0 https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3D285957 --- Comment #72 from Matthias Andree --- Note that an -exp run isn't going to dig up all failures. There will be run-time fallout because we do not usually exercise all the .py files we package. Some class attributes may have changed, for instance. Now that Warner opened this Bugzilla PR's discussion to the future versions= ... The large number of disruptive changes is exacerbated by the attempt of hav= ing half a dozen of parallel Python versions without any attempts of pushing the burden to maintain niche ports out, whilst at the same time pushing potenti= al contributors to the side and stomping over them without giving alignments, directions, anything. Just for the fun of it, someone try getting their favorite Python ports installed for 3.13t (t for free-threaded). They'll be in for a very bumpy = ride and many ports will fall off the cart. BTDT. Back to future planning: 1. The attempt to do more work in less time whilst disappointing volunteers from stomping over them without communication will fail. Instead of openin= g up the team and plans to attract contributors, more work is centralized onto t= he already-overloaded python team and that's... showing. 2. Having 3.10 3.11 3.12 3.13 3.14 as mainline, 3.13t as a pretty incompati= ble variant and 3.15 beta as preparation is quite a unique luxury FreeBSD is tr= ying to afford but maneuvered into a thicket of dependencies. 3a. The other unique approach in FreeBSD is trying to package the world, the cheese shop, the Sun, the Moon, and their siblings as native packages. And everything's supposed to work through all versions? 3b. Upstream and many other parties are either focusing on *one* recent Pyt= hon version (one in mainstream support, as opposed to security support), and/or packaging only central builder stuff such as venv, pip, wheel, thereabouts,= and then defer the rest to use virtual environments for the deployments. Proposals: do a bulk order of "DEPRECATED" tags and slap them onto niche po= rts that break on newer setuptools or newer python versions with a live FreeBSD and/or upstream maintainer to assist, or that won't work with Python 3.13 today.=20 (Repeat for py-* ports incompatible with 3.14 as soon as 3.13 will be demot= ed from upstream mainline to security support.) Add DEPRECATED to 3.11 IN JUNE, BEFORE 2026Q3 branches, so everyone knows what's coming, and consider deprecating early. We might want to sunset it t= he same day we sunset 3.10 so we get rid of holdups sooner. And now it turns out to be larger than "we" anticipated. =3D> Then "we" is = too few, "we're trying" whilst letting certain roles go out of hand and push long-term contributors to the side in stark violation of the portmgr charte= r, with years of failed communication, that is also a seclusive approach - and= you never learn how many people have silently turned away without even offering their support.=20=20 You don't see them up high in the ivory tower. So can we=20 A. write down the top three (or five, I don't mind) pain spots from the make-3.11-default and make-3.12-default efforts down so we can take a more strategic approach... B. transition FreeBSD Python ports from a "do heavier lifting, more grunt w= ork" approach to a more architectural and strategic attack angle for 3.13 and 3.= 14 to come? --=20 You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug.=