Re: Renaming O_NAMEDATTR to O_NAMEDSTREAMS Re: Size of "alternate data streams"/"resource forks" / O_NAMEDATTR Re: FreeBSD Status Report - Second Quarter 2025

On Tue, 9 Sept 2025 at 14:36, Joshuah Hurst <joshhurst@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Thu, Sep 4, 2025 at 8:25 AM Roland Mainz <roland.mainz@nrubsig.org> wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 3, 2025 at 6:34 PM Cedric Blancher
> > <cedric.blancher@gmail.com> wrote:
> > [Please keep me in the CC:, I do not get emails from the freebsd-hackers@ list]
> > >
> > > On Tue, 2 Sept 2025 at 23:12, Rick Macklem <rick.macklem@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Sep 2, 2025 at 11:29 AM Dan Shelton <dan.f.shelton@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sat, 30 Aug 2025 at 12:54, Lorenzo Salvadore <salvadore@freebsd.org> wrote:
> > > > > > The top level system call interface is open(2)/openat(2) with the new
> > > > > > O_NAMEDATTR flag (called O_XATTR on Solaris).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Most of the work has been committed to FreeBSD’s main for FreeBSD 15. Once the
> > > > > > ZFS patch makes it through review and gets pulled into OpenZFS, the ZFS and
> > > > > > NFSv4 support should work. There are also a couple of manual pages currently
> > > > > > under review in phabricator.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The main thing left to do is update libarchive/tar so that large extended
> > > > > > attributes can be archived/retrieved. (The current FreeBSD extended attribute
> > > > > > mechanism is supported by libarchive, but will have size constraints.)
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. There are no size constraints. The main problem is different:
> > > > > SUN's original name is both a misnomer, and was hijacked by Linux to
> > > > > stuff in their broken clone of Windows extended attributes.
> > > > >
> > > > > The O_NAMEDATTR/O_XATTR files are in fact "alternate data streams",
> > > > > like on Windows, macOS (which calls them resource forks), and
> > > > > mainframe operating systems.
> > > > > They can have unlimited size (like the "main" data stream), and can
> > > > > even be sparse (SEEK_HOLE&friends). These are very different beats
> > > > > from "extended attributes".
> > > > >
> > > > > Background:
> > > > > Early versions of Windows started with EA (extended attributes), and
> > > > > then Windows NT4 adopted alternate data streams as a superior super
> > > > > set of the EA. Windows just couldn't get rid of the EAs, so they (and
> > > > > their evil Linux xattr clone) and their limitations keep haunting us.
> > > > >
> > > > > Funny is, EAs in Windows are nowadays just emulated via alternate data
> > > > > streams (stream "$EA" is the index, stream "$EA_INFORMATION" has the
> > > > > raw data).
> > > > >
> > > > > 2. Look at Solaris tar, which can handle unlimited size of O_XATTR streams
> > > > It might be possible to put Solaris tar (from OpenSolaris) in ports.
> > > > I'll put it on my (currently rather long) todo list, unless someone
> > > > else is inspired
> > > > to look at it?
> > > >
> > > > As for libarchive, there are two problems:
> > > > - The way it is structured, it generates a linked list of a file's
> > > > extended attributes.
> > > >   As such, it is possible for very large ones to run into malloc()
> > > > failures (aka ENOMEM).
> > > >   To fix this would be a major re-write of libarchive, so I do not see
> > > > that happenning.
> > > > - The other is that it currently uses
> > > > extattr_get_file/extattr_set_file, which copies the
> > > >   entire attribute in one syscall. This actually works for ZFS
> > > > locally, but will not work
> > > >   for NFSv4.2 because there is a limit (currently a little over
> > > > 1Mbyte) on RPC message
> > > >   size.
> > > >   --> This should be fixable via a patch that replaces the above
> > > > syscalls with loops
> > > >        on read/write for file systems that support named attributes.
> > > > This is already on my todo list.
> > >
> > > I think the problem here is that people think O_XATTR/O_NAMEDATTRS are
> > > "attributes". Which implies a short amount of data, which is
> > > ABSOLUTELY NOT THE CASE!!
> > >
> > > Maybe O_NAMEDATTR and O_XATTR should be renamed to O_NAMEDSTREAMS
> > > (plural!), as a clear and present warning that this stuff can store
> > > lots of data?
> >
> > I like the idea, because it fixes the problem that the
> > |O_ATTR|/|O_NAMEDATTR| are treated like attributes, while SUN's
> > intention was to implement "Alternate Data Streams" (which is a
> > superset of "extended attributes" as seen in Win32 EA and Linux XATTR,
> > but with none of their limitations and problems) for Windows, MacOS,
> > VMS and mainframe OS support.
> >
> > Re Plural: NO, please read openat(2): You open ONE named (attribute)
> > stream by passing this flag and the name, or the index (dir) by
> > passing "." as name. One attribute == Singular.
>
> Please also update the related #defines:
> 1. for openat()
> O_NAMEDSTREAM
>
> 2. for pathconf()
> _PC_NAMEDSTREAM_ENABLED
> _PC_NAMEDSTREAM_EXISTS
>
> That is actually a naming convention better than XATTR.

I agree.

Lionel