From nobody Mon Feb 03 10:35:44 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4YmjZk1pfLz5mtYx for ; Mon, 03 Feb 2025 10:35:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mohammad@thelightbird.com) Received: from mail-lj1-x230.google.com (mail-lj1-x230.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::230]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4YmjZj6TZwz3ZGL for ; Mon, 03 Feb 2025 10:35:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mohammad@thelightbird.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-lj1-x230.google.com with SMTP id 38308e7fff4ca-30219437e63so54353571fa.1 for ; Mon, 03 Feb 2025 02:35:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=thelightbird-com.20230601.gappssmtp.com; s=20230601; t=1738578956; x=1739183756; darn=freebsd.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=xoSBfgsPiWcR1wop1WCsAKnjfkMhgspJaDhHJ8EE0fw=; b=Y3R4QoEKFHaYdcIkG9ZCNWOIBlQvEzUZNVAnf3o3sHFZY1Th+lCiWuSxbw7GVTT1z4 veVJzVMvCvjaZlGtUxo2f7tStn0kqYRP5es+JLcd86D2nwuk+6VbABmhAEiAYat++M/i 2YgcsYJhSXERVwvaF6BsS16A7eGJF4H3RffhX7qChYbSXb2cpzmJrTuNbcji9DNd5ryt jyyxpvhhx9B0FYOcuURKZ/OgX8s9yhuomzOaWxPSBprKrWTiQOnEH/0dtnqJoZoNBKLF VB6pjvYT1w5+nU76FSiipg+dOLS9So2yJRf1HNc+vhQW7/9ez8EZjXw4teTTtDKHg3QS hTzQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1738578956; x=1739183756; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=xoSBfgsPiWcR1wop1WCsAKnjfkMhgspJaDhHJ8EE0fw=; b=w2NAoE6pN7zRtqXIRp6sAipxDXW92t9pXcJTHaJWUxL1OgMz4LrnrzdTGY7jXQZjkF fgv424bQn5Wue+QwZebSIRaaMyhXqrCiRGdHPqXZcmpklE/VdFhhHXrqUUJODhxcYybu ZVdp8JMbS99if798SboXgrPTAc4CAOJWFiu+L2JNu/uKQlO/WPt0roj8PgZNKGXzv0sw 1TncV6Q2vGnD6LJ5ZDZoHXPwL1qzQOD1xFzDI9qD7lNi3ezzBJh2Kw0JvgwtLjd3pCqs ceClYbzDvsjjHlSvJNigVcQ4GhDgU0erRWXra8Za9XpJW9akSWY4onPexGlWx3w8UxZp cpqw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxOkmxCyW3caX5E7Y7CfFezE/R5wuzVxLWDnAfhfuVRhi/pcChB aZP5bfUqDDUzZoe5Ris4VGBeCj1JZuO1JLEYOkRj2RTjej0ngKhUNyq6fE8KWgnQ6mj2MGpr4Co mqE+tPBNzMjdiGOuFguwXvv7IQ/BLy3jLMDiI X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncszAoymCnkKImaNM/K0spVbZ8zCvsRtCrfBTkRVn5/OyUhSQ8F0FzFDDIf55aP iNAgrt1ip5a28ttLrOdJg4Vf/9F1u4GRJluStcO2nzUkbeDgL5+chk4zLQgfPgpZ/IwaGsR0rDp jKrW9LvKUdf3Z5g95jDBDAfVx4xg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHpN0ZG63xBmeWAp2LQkxTj45YyIhuFRrpFR1PeVmsylOErlMXCPKQg5QryuT9z38RXXr9Uxafhh/zKntzCDUo= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:9d0a:0:b0:300:31dc:8a4a with SMTP id 38308e7fff4ca-307aa4552cemr41786231fa.18.1738578955440; Mon, 03 Feb 2025 02:35:55 -0800 (PST) List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <79E3193E-BCB6-4774-B1E5-5130AEDD4624.ref@yahoo.com> <79E3193E-BCB6-4774-B1E5-5130AEDD4624@yahoo.com> <52406D6A-80C9-467C-A0EF-4C28C7D0E1BB@yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: From: Mohammad Noureldin Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2025 11:35:44 +0100 X-Gm-Features: AWEUYZkAdnsIALtcoMnxgsF2_kcj-yJh1PB23sI65_S9ZlHS5lKdtA24DLkbn_I Message-ID: Subject: Re: Thunderbolt3/USB4 targeting: should the wiki materials be more explicit about Thunderbolt 3 vs. Thunderbolt 4 distinctions? To: Mark Millard Cc: freebsd-hackers Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000db328062d3a758c" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4YmjZj6TZwz3ZGL X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US] --0000000000000db328062d3a758c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey Mark! On Sun, Feb 2, 2025 at 9:22=E2=80=AFPM Mark Millard wro= te: > On Feb 2, 2025, at 10:03, Mohammad Noureldin > wrote: > > > Hi Mark! > > Hello Mohammad, > > > . . . > > > > > > I would like to end my email with notes and a question to you: > > - Thanks for reading the wiki pages and pointing out that it needs some > more details (as promised above I will work on that as I go) > > - Thanks for sharing which HW you have access to and that you would lik= e > to see it work > > - Question: > > -# Which host(s) HW do you happen to have ? > > > > Looking forward to your reply > > Host HW I have some access to (not necessarily that FreeBSD is likely > to support): > > ) Two MacMini 2018's > > I'll note that Apple does not describe such in terms of USB4, > given that the specification predates USB4. As I understand there > are respects in which they are capably of being USB4 compatible > for various uses but not necessarily USB4 compliant about > supporting everything required. An example is Thunderbolt 3 only > supporting somewhat shorter cabling at speed (0.7m instead of > 0.8m), if I understand right. > > =E2=80=A2 Support for the following combination of maximum concurrent= display > setups: > =E2=80=A2 > =E2=80=A2 Up to three displays: > =E2=80=A2 Two displays with 4096-by-2304 resolution at 60= Hz > connected via Thunderbolt 3 plus one display with 4096-by-2160 resolution > at 60Hz connected via HDMI 2.0 > =E2=80=A2 Up to two displays: > =E2=80=A2 One display with 5120-by-2880 resolution at 60H= z > connected via Thunderbolt 3 plus one display with 4096-by-2160 resolution > at 60Hz connected via HDMI 2.0 > =E2=80=A2 Thunderbolt 3 digital video output supports > =E2=80=A2 Native DisplayPort output over USB-C > =E2=80=A2 Thunderbolt 2, DVI, and VGA output supported using adap= ters > (sold separately) > . . . > =E2=80=A2 Four Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) ports with support for: > =E2=80=A2 DisplayPort > =E2=80=A2 Thunderbolt 3 (up to 40 Gb/s) > =E2=80=A2 USB 3.1 Gen 2 (up to 10 Gb/s) > =E2=80=A2 Thunderbolt 2, HDMI, DVI, and VGA supported using adapt= ers (sold > separately) > =E2=80=A2 Two USB-A ports (up to 5Gb/s) > . . . > > NOTE: Some later material below about devices supporting > Thunderbolt 3 Macs that predate USB4 but not > Thunderbolt 3 PCs that are not USB4 as well could > be relevant for this context. > > Host HW I likely will have some access to at some point: > > ) One 14" M4 Max MacBook Pro 2024 > > =E2=80=A2 Three Thunderbolt 5 (USB-C) ports with support for: > =E2=80=A2 Charging > =E2=80=A2 DisplayPort > =E2=80=A2 Thunderbolt 5 (up to 120Gb/s) > =E2=80=A2 USB 4 (up to 120Gb/s) > > =E2=80=A2 1 billion colors and: > =E2=80=A2 Up to four external displays: Up to three external displays= with 6K > resolution at 60Hz over Thunderbolt and one external display with up to 4= K > resolution at 144Hz over HDMI > =E2=80=A2 Up to three external displays: Up to two external displays = with 6K > resolution at 60Hz over Thunderbolt and one external display with up to 8= K > resolution at 60Hz or one external display with 4K resolution at 240Hz ov= er > HDMI > Thunderbolt 4 digital video output > =E2=80=A2 Support for native DisplayPort 1.4 output over USB-C > Thunderbolt 5 digital video output > =E2=80=A2 Support for native DisplayPort 2.1 output over USB-C > > > Other HW that I have some access to: > > ) Multiple Envoy Pro FX > > =E2=80=A2 One Host Port: > Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) up to 40Gb/s (5000MB/s) > USB 3.2 Gen 2 (USB-C) up to 10Gb/s (1250MB/s) > USB 2.0/USB 3.0 backwards compatible > > Chipset / Controller > =E2=80=A2 Thunderbolt: Intel Titan Ridge > =E2=80=A2 USB: Realtek RTL9210 > > ) One OWC Thunderbolt Hub (later possibly two of them) > > =E2=80=A2 (1) Host Port - Thunderbolt 4 (USB-C) up to 40Gb/s (5000MB/= s) > =E2=80=A2 (3) Thunderbolt 4 (USB-C) Ports > =E2=80=A2 (1) USB 3.2 Gen 2 Type-A Port up to 10Gb/s (1250MB/s) - USB= 2.0/3.0 > backwards compatible > > "Now you can do more, effortlessly on": > "your Apple M1 Mac" > "any Apple =E2=80=98Intel=E2=80=99 Mac with Thunderbolt 3" > "any Thunderbolt 4 PC" > > NOTE: The lack of "Thunderbolt 3 PC" is significant: Thunderbolt 3 > PCs that are not any of Thunderbolt 4/5 or USB4 (v1 or v2) > as well are not supported as host systems. Yet Macs are. > (FreeBSD may well not make Thunderbolt 3 Macs supported.) > > =E2=80=A2 Thunderbolt 4 host port provides up to 60W of power to the = host > computer. > =E2=80=A2 Thunderbolt 4 device ports (for external drives and other d= evices) > provide 15W of power. > =E2=80=A2 USB port provides up to 1.5A of power for bus-powered drive= s and > device charging. > > I'll note that this might be a dynamic power context for handling > power acorss the ports: the external power supply is only 110W, > not 112.5W (=3D=3D 60W+3*15W+5V*1.5A). If it is not supplying power to > a host computer, the total would be under 110W. (There is also a > mode that can have extra power for the USB-A connection in order > to allow an Apple SuperDrive to be used. But it takes a special > driver to enable such under macOS.) > > =E2=80=A2 Up to one 8K display @ 60Hz, > =E2=80=A2 or one 4K display @ 120Hz, > =E2=80=A2 or two 4K displays @ 60Hz, > =E2=80=A2 or one 4K display @ 60Hz, > =E2=80=A2 or one 4K display @ 30Hz, > =E2=80=A2 or two 5K displays @ 60Hz > > =E2=80=A2 Thunderbolt 4: Up to 8K @ 60Hz or 4K @ 120Hz via a native > Thunderbolt 4 display > or other display that supports USB-C connections and DisplayPort 1.= 4 > > > Other HW I likely will have some access to at some point: > > ) One CalDigit Thunderbolt 5 Element 5 Hub > > =E2=80=A2 1 x Thunderbolt 5 Host (Up to 120Gb/s) > =E2=80=A2 3 x Thunderbolt 5 (80Gb/s) > =E2=80=A2 3 x USB-A (10Gb/s) > =E2=80=A2 2 x USB-C (10Gb/s) > > Required context: > =E2=80=A2 Thunderbolt 5 Computer > =E2=80=A2 Thunderbolt 4 Computer > =E2=80=A2 Thunderbolt 3 Mac > =E2=80=A2 USB-C (USB4 or USB4 v2) Computer > =E2=80=A2 USB-C Computer/Tablet/Phone > =E2=80=A2 Thunderbolt/USB4 iPad > =E2=80=A2 USB-C ChromeBook > > NOTE: That "Thunderbolt 3 Mac" is significant: Thunderbolt 3 > PCs that are not any of Thunderbolt 4/5 or USB4 (v1 or v2) > as well are not supported as host systems. Yet Macs are. > (FreeBSD may well not make Thunderbolt 3 Macs supported.) > > =E2=80=A2 Up to 90W Host Charging > =E2=80=A2 Each Downstream Thunderbolt 5 / USB4 v2 Port: 15W (5V/3A) > =E2=80=A2 Each USB-A Port: 7.5W (5V/1.5A) > =E2=80=A2 Each USB-C Port: 7.5W (5V/1.5A) > > Note: No dynamic power involved. > Nice!!! Thats quite a set of HW you have. I took notes of this discussion into the wiki pages for later reference. > > > SIDE NOTE: > > It may well be that FreeBSD supporting the MacMini 2018 is > unlikely. The same may be true of the M4 Max MacBook Pro > 2024. > For the MacMinis 2018, I see they are Intel based ones. I am not sure if FreeBSD as is runs on them with no issues, but when it comes to what concerns this discussion what I've mentioned before about TBT3 support priorities applies. As for the Apple Silicon based ones, given our priorities they would be indeed a good test case but that also depends on how far the support of FreeBSD as is on such platforms is. > > I'm not expecting that the USB4 effort would enable use of > the Windows Dev Kit 2023's USB-C ports, as it is not > classified as a USB4 context as far as I know. > Ah, I saw you mention this one in different occasions on MLs and Discord. Maybe detail the issues you have with it in a different thread ? It does sound interesting. > > So I may not end up with a viable testing context. > I see your point and I do admire your eagerness to take part. In my case I do tend to get 2nd hand HW. I am located in The Netherlands and there is good market for this here. This helps me get more HW for the cent compared to brand new ones. Where are you located if I may ask ? Let's see if something can be arranged whenever there is something ready to be tested. If you like to share that in private, you can PM me on Discord or on IRC I am mnour_bsd on #freebsd > > =3D=3D=3D > Mark Millard > marklmi at yahoo.com > > Wish you a good day/evening Mark --=20 Thanks - Mohammad Noureldin -- "Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving" - Albert Einstein --0000000000000db328062d3a758c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hey Mark!

On Sun, Feb 2, 2025 at= 9:22=E2=80=AFPM Mark Millard <mark= lmi@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Feb 2, 2025, at 10:03, Mohammad Noureldin <mohammad@thelightbird.com= > wrote:

> Hi Mark!

Hello Mohammad,

> . . .
>
>
> I would like to end my email with notes and a question to you:
> - Thanks for reading the wiki pages and pointing out that it needs som= e more details (as promised above I will work on that as I go)
> - Thanks for sharing which HW you have access to and that you would li= ke to see it work
> - Question:
> -# Which host(s) HW do you happen to have ?
>
> Looking forward to your reply

Host HW I have some access to (not necessarily that FreeBSD is likely
to support):

) Two MacMini 2018's

=C2=A0 I'll=C2=A0 note that Apple does not describe such in terms of US= B4,
=C2=A0 given that the specification predates USB4. As I understand there =C2=A0 are respects in which they are capably of being USB4 compatible
=C2=A0 for various uses but not necessarily USB4 compliant about
=C2=A0 supporting everything required. An example is Thunderbolt 3 only
=C2=A0 supporting somewhat shorter cabling at speed (0.7m instead of
=C2=A0 0.8m), if I understand right.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 Support for the following combination of maximum co= ncurrent display setups:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 Up to three displays: =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 Two displ= ays with 4096-by-2304 resolution at 60Hz connected via Thunderbolt 3 plus o= ne display with 4096-by-2160 resolution at 60Hz connected via HDMI 2.0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 Up to two displays:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 One displ= ay with 5120-by-2880 resolution at 60Hz connected via Thunderbolt 3 plus on= e display with 4096-by-2160 resolution at 60Hz connected via HDMI 2.0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 Thunderbolt 3 digital video output supports
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 Native DisplayPort output over USB-C<= br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 Thunderbolt 2, DVI, and VGA output su= pported using adapters (sold separately)
. . .
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 Four Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) ports with support for:<= br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 DisplayPort
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 Thunderbolt 3 (up to 40 Gb/s)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 USB 3.1 Gen 2 (up to 10 Gb/s)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 Thunderbolt 2, HDMI, DVI, and VGA sup= ported using adapters (sold separately)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 Two USB-A ports (up to 5Gb/s)
. . .

=C2=A0 NOTE: Some later material below about devices supporting
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thunderbolt 3 Macs that predate USB4 but not =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thunderbolt 3 PCs that are not USB4 as well cou= ld
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 be relevant for this context.

Host HW I likely will have some access to at some point:

) One 14" M4 Max MacBook Pro 2024

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 Three Thunderbolt 5 (USB-C) ports with support for:=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 Charging
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 DisplayPort
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 Thunderbolt 5 (up to 120Gb/s)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 USB 4 (up to 120Gb/s)

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 1 billion colors and:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 Up to four external displays: Up to three external = displays with 6K resolution at 60Hz over Thunderbolt and one external displ= ay with up to 4K resolution at 144Hz over HDMI
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 Up to three external displays: Up to two external d= isplays with 6K resolution at 60Hz over Thunderbolt and one external displa= y with up to 8K resolution at 60Hz or one external display with 4K resoluti= on at 240Hz over HDMI
Thunderbolt 4 digital video output
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 Support for native DisplayPort 1.4 output over USB-= C
Thunderbolt 5 digital video output
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 Support for native DisplayPort 2.1 output over USB-= C


Other HW that I have some access to:

) Multiple Envoy Pro FX

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 One Host Port:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) up to 40Gb/s (5000MB/s)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 USB 3.2 Gen 2 (USB-C) up to 10Gb/s (1250MB/s)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 USB 2.0/USB 3.0 backwards compatible

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Chipset / Controller
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 Thunderbolt: Intel Titan Ridge
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 USB: Realtek RTL9210

) One OWC Thunderbolt Hub (later possibly two of them)

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 (1) Host Port - Thunderbolt 4 (USB-C) up to 40Gb/s = (5000MB/s)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 (3) Thunderbolt 4 (USB-C) Ports
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 (1) USB 3.2 Gen 2 Type-A Port up to 10Gb/s (1250MB/= s) - USB 2.0/3.0 backwards compatible

=C2=A0 "Now you can do more, effortlessly on":
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 "your Apple M1 Mac"
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 "any Apple =E2=80=98Intel=E2=80=99 Mac with Thunderbolt = 3"
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 "any Thunderbolt 4 PC"

=C2=A0 =C2=A0NOTE: The lack of "Thunderbolt 3 PC" is significant:= Thunderbolt 3
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0PCs that are not any of Thunderbolt 4/5 o= r USB4 (v1 or v2)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0as well are not supported as host systems= . Yet Macs are.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0(FreeBSD may well not make Thunderbolt 3 = Macs supported.)

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 Thunderbolt 4 host port provides up to 60W of power= to the host computer.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 Thunderbolt 4 device ports (for external drives and= other devices) provide 15W of power.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 USB port provides up to 1.5A of power for bus-power= ed drives and device charging.

=C2=A0 I'll note that this might be a dynamic power context for handlin= g
=C2=A0 power acorss the ports: the external=C2=A0 =C2=A0power supply is onl= y 110W,
=C2=A0 not 112.5W (=3D=3D 60W+3*15W+5V*1.5A). If it is not supplying power = to
=C2=A0 a host computer, the total would be under 110W. (There is also a
=C2=A0 mode that can have extra power for the USB-A connection in order
=C2=A0 to allow an Apple SuperDrive to be used. But it takes a special
=C2=A0 driver to enable such under macOS.)

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 Up to one 8K display @ 60Hz,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 or one 4K display @ 120Hz,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 or two 4K displays @ 60Hz,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 or one 4K display @ 60Hz,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 or one 4K display @ 30Hz,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 or two 5K displays @ 60Hz

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 Thunderbolt 4: Up to 8K @ 60Hz or 4K @ 120Hz via a = native Thunderbolt 4 display
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 or other display that supports USB-C connections and D= isplayPort 1.4


Other HW I likely will have some access to at some point:

) One CalDigit Thunderbolt 5 Element 5 Hub

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 1 x Thunderbolt 5 Host (Up to 120Gb/s)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 3 x Thunderbolt 5 (80Gb/s)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 3 x USB-A (10Gb/s)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 2 x USB-C (10Gb/s)

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Required context:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 Thunderbolt 5 Computer
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 Thunderbolt 4 Computer
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 Thunderbolt 3 Mac
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 USB-C (USB4 or USB4 v2) Computer
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 USB-C Computer/Tablet/Phone
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 Thunderbolt/USB4 iPad
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 USB-C ChromeBook

=C2=A0 NOTE: That "Thunderbolt 3 Mac" is significant: Thunderbolt= 3
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 PCs that are not any of Thunderbolt 4/5 or USB4= (v1 or v2)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 as well are not supported as host systems. Yet = Macs are.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (FreeBSD may well not make Thunderbolt 3 Macs s= upported.)

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 Up to 90W Host Charging
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 Each Downstream Thunderbolt 5 / USB4 v2 Port: 15W (= 5V/3A)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 Each USB-A Port: 7.5W (5V/1.5A)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A2 Each USB-C Port: 7.5W (5V/1.5A)

=C2=A0 Note: No dynamic power involved.

Nice!!! Thats quite a set of HW you have. I took notes of this discussion = into the wiki pages for later reference.
=C2=A0


SIDE NOTE:

It may well be that FreeBSD supporting the MacMini 2018 is
unlikely. The same may be true of the M4 Max MacBook Pro
2024.

For the MacMinis 2018, I see they= are Intel based ones. I am not sure if FreeBSD as is runs on them with no = issues, but when it comes to what concerns this discussion what I've me= ntioned before about TBT3 support priorities applies.

<= div>As for the Apple Silicon based ones, given our priorities they would be= indeed a good test case but that also depends on how far the support of Fr= eeBSD as is on such platforms is.
=C2=A0

I'm not expecting that the USB4 effort would enable use of
the Windows Dev Kit 2023's USB-C ports, as it is not
classified as a USB4 context as far as I know.

Ah, I saw you mention this one in different occasions on MLs and Di= scord. Maybe detail the issues you have with it in a different thread ? It = does sound interesting.
=C2=A0

So I may not end up with a viable testing context.
I see your point and I do admire your eagerness to take part.= =C2=A0

In my case I do tend to get 2nd hand HW. I = am located in The Netherlands and there is good market for this here. This = helps me get more HW for the cent compared to brand new ones.
Where are you located if I may ask ? Let's see if something= can be arranged whenever there is something ready to be tested.
=
If you like to share that in private, you can PM me on Disco= rd or on IRC I am mnour_bsd on #freebsd
=C2=A0

=3D=3D=3D
Mark Millard
marklmi at yahoo.com


Wish you a good day/ev= ening Mark

--
<= div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"color:rgb(136,136,136)">Thanks
- Mohammad Noure= ldin
--
"Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you= must keep moving"
- Albert Einstein

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