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Mon, 9 Sep 2024 13:39:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2024 18:38:56 +0100 From: void To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-Id: <15a38054-3a14-4eb4-a803-9ce12e413194@app.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: <20240909143239.8F285AF@slippy.cwsent.com> References: <202409031532.483FW0If007252@critter.freebsd.dk> <3845d980-7160-4819-82a4-db2281828c8c@app.fastmail.com> <202409090442.4894gGMb086473@donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net> <20240909143239.8F285AF@slippy.cwsent.com> Subject: Re: Binary updates (was Re: It's not Rust, it's FreeBSD (and LLVM)) Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.02 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.73)[-0.726]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[f-m.fm,none]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:103.168.172.128/27]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[f-m.fm:s=fm1,messagingengine.com:s=fm1]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_VERYGOOD(-0.20)[103.168.172.144:from]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[103.168.172.144:from]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[f-m.fm]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[f-m.fm:+,messagingengine.com:+]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; ASN(0.00)[asn:209242, ipnet:103.168.172.0/24, country:US]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[f-m.fm]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[messagingengine.com:dkim] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4X2Yx60BS2z47rX On Mon, 9 Sep 2024, at 15:32, Cy Schubert wrote: > Those of us who build from source and build ports, whether manually or > through our own poudriere, are the minority. Just visit the FreeBSD forums. IIRC, the forums don't entertain issues raised by src builders, only -releng. This is from a while ago though, I might be wrong about that now, am happy to be corrected. > I attend OpenHack here. People who do use FreeBSD use freebsd-update and > binary packages. (I use freebsd-update and binary packages on some VMs at > $JOB, while maintaining my own network at home as any developer does.) I use freebsd-update on some VMs too. It has its place. But always poudriere for ports, as most of the VMs are internet facing, and when a vuln happens and is patched it's the fastest way to fix the situation, rather than waiting on the pkg builders. > And that's a marketing feature of FreeBSD. Most users don't want he hassle > of building and installing an O/S. Have most users been asked? > Out in the real world people use binary updates and binary packages. We > developers are an anomaly these days. I'd not consider myself a dev. That might be just me though. Is streamlining a kernel to have what you want and no more a 'dev' activity? Manually patching? > Just because a few of us build from source doesn't mean the rest of the > world does. How would you know? Who has counted the numbers? I think maybe a poll on the main site might be enlightening. I mean, I agree src builders are probably in a minority now, as freebsd-update is convenient in standard cases, but it's possibly a larger number than you think, who build from src. We'll never really know without counting. I really hope that when pkgsrc becomes dominant, that we're still able to grab src in git and checkout whats required, and build from that. It's so very versatile. --