From nobody Fri Sep 06 08:52:35 2024 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4X0VNy00yDz5WPXS for ; Fri, 06 Sep 2024 08:52:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from antranigv@freebsd.am) Received: from fhigh3-smtp.messagingengine.com (fhigh3-smtp.messagingengine.com [103.168.172.154]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4X0VNx5HX2z4hCt; Fri, 6 Sep 2024 08:52:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from antranigv@freebsd.am) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from phl-compute-06.internal (phl-compute-06.phl.internal [10.202.2.46]) by mailfhigh.phl.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CF96114015B; Fri, 6 Sep 2024 04:52:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phl-mailfrontend-02 ([10.202.2.163]) by phl-compute-06.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 06 Sep 2024 04:52:48 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.am; h=cc :cc:content-type:content-type:date:date:from:from:in-reply-to :in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to:subject :subject:to:to; s=fm3; t=1725612768; x=1725699168; bh=HOqH/89thW qhhRoS+WbiWMyDuHSJJF784IKxhYAoy0g=; b=qr+UUgsr8Rfezsu+c0eOvDma7C vjFT5ughThuI02h9n3dMK7z3suiDxAzto+bMREodL1dRvCaeSKQJpITvS+0kp8uw fciBjTsvVTSQf+W6yrNtkYH7e6n1g9UAEsbNmr/6QQhQngFw13mX92BKKr5Jtm71 ncu8izbh7AX5wKs4bQtjNt2oEDSVcFxTnZLuE12xU12+BJI8GoGHXcYDiE9C1/TO MsFeFeo4yG5wEIDsiu8YkwSVGg/Z/wYA4i69FBfw/Z8QzzM4kB2ME09NuzBqhCwe dqTbPC34ktN3NfhhhSVSJFIkd+MQZMUH7okIjRpTUOi3u2X/2j+k0qw1dTxQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-type:content-type:date:date :feedback-id:feedback-id:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to:subject:subject:to :to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s= fm1; t=1725612768; x=1725699168; bh=HOqH/89thWqhhRoS+WbiWMyDuHSJ JF784IKxhYAoy0g=; b=H18U6xQerauNa6wmsOiOkb+vCHIEHatAe9aw01brh5Vk Hw+OMpvtdtFOfGnUxxzeogvgHlr7mnGShLTpa2TMiJDn0Hi9kU2I50pHpiHTMy6N IimQvWu88x+efp3YaudIEuDyLn6YUacwPQtkAsuyZpVDL/DaBkGw/FkgoOkmhwan b9JAITlW4/BnwUsAoHBx174MMxKLCeFbwmjRgqYIJ4YngOhzzqaeKfaPeauB+a3j f8ul8WN55F9j4gZsNK+xqWwY4lScgql9xbhYTYpl1K8QX65HT7KAIPN+D8T4y43O F2gVTC/0hsFTlJ1eq0qNC9NyExMY8UwbzX57EXVbyQ== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeeftddrudeiuddgtdelucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdggtfgfnhhsuhgsshgtrhhisggvpdfu rfetoffkrfgpnffqhgenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnh htshculddquddttddmnecujfgurheptggguffhjgffvefkfhfvofesghdtmherhhdtjeen ucfhrhhomheptehnthhrrghnihhgucggrghrthgrnhhirghnuceorghnthhrrghnihhgvh esfhhrvggvsghsugdrrghmqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeefgffhheekudeifffhgffh geffffetffevgfdtheeuveegleeihfdvheduudeiteenucffohhmrghinheprghnthhrrg hnihhgvhdrrghmnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhf rhhomheprghnthhrrghnihhgvhesfhhrvggvsghsugdrrghmpdhnsggprhgtphhtthhope efpdhmohguvgepshhmthhpohhuthdprhgtphhtthhopehphhhksehphhhkrdhfrhgvvggs shgurdgukhdprhgtphhtthhopegrshhomhgvrhhssehfrhgvvggsshgurdhorhhgpdhrtg hpthhtohepfhhrvggvsghsugdqhhgrtghkvghrshesfhhrvggvsghsugdrohhrgh X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: ibc494664:Fastmail Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Fri, 6 Sep 2024 04:52:47 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_02CB27F2-F813-4037-80FC-4259B64F40A5"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256 List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3776.700.51\)) Subject: Re: The Case for Rust (in any system) From: Antranig Vartanian In-Reply-To: <202409060836.4868agnQ042462@critter.freebsd.dk> Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2024 12:52:35 +0400 Cc: Alan Somers , FreeBSD Hackers Message-Id: References: <202409060836.4868agnQ042462@critter.freebsd.dk> To: Poul-Henning Kamp X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3776.700.51) X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:209242, ipnet:103.168.172.0/24, country:US] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4X0VNx5HX2z4hCt --Apple-Mail=_02CB27F2-F813-4037-80FC-4259B64F40A5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 PHK, I=E2=80=99m sorry for disappointing, I should have indeed mentioned = SPARK ;) I totally agree with your =E2=80=9CWhat is FreeBSD?=E2=80=9D question, = and I would love to=20 compete using Oberon. Someone might need to say =E2=80=9CLet the games = begin=E2=80=9D. This is all the approval I need to start writing more Oberon code = specifically=20 for FreeBSD. We already have a Jail wrapper, libUCL wrapper, libxo = wrapper,=20 even ZFS wrapper that we use. And it=E2=80=99s been working very well = for us. Less bugs,=20 more productivity and easier debugging. So, ports? and maybe someday into PkgBase? Let=E2=80=99s see how it = goes. That=E2=80=99s all I needed from this mailing list. Kind regards, =E2=80=94 Antranig Vartanian https://antranigv.am/ PGP Key ID: 0x2D59F21C > On 6 Sep 2024, at 12:36=E2=80=AFPM, Poul-Henning Kamp = wrote: >=20 > -------- > Antranig Vartanian writes: >=20 >> My point is: yes, we do need better languages. Yes, we do need = memory-safety=20 >> and better tooling. But is Rust the answer? >=20 > Rust is what all the cool kids run right now, which they will deny, > claiming that Rust Is Simply Superior in replies to this email, > despite this prediction. >=20 > But as I said in an email a couple of days ago: We should not > anoint some particular subset of programming languages or other. >=20 > We should answer the question "What is FreeBSD?" in a way which > does not contain a very short and controversial list of "approved > programming languages". >=20 > A pkg-based FreeBSD will allow the Rust people to write good code > for FreeBSD in Rust, and C, C++, Go, Lua, OBERON or Ada can freely > compete with them, without causing year-long slug-fests on the > mailing lists. >=20 > And if the INTERCAL people want to write FreeBSD kernel code in > INTERCAL, they get to maintain whatever it takes for their > compiler to grok the interfaces to the kernel, likewise for > any other language. >=20 > Poul-Henning >=20 >=20 > PS: I'm disappointed you did not mention Ada with SPARK. >=20 > --=20 > Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 > phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 > FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe =20 > Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by = incompetence. --Apple-Mail=_02CB27F2-F813-4037-80FC-4259B64F40A5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEElMZjj3yN+bx0tQ6G3jmYZi1Z8hwFAmbawtMACgkQ3jmYZi1Z 8hyMdQ/+JEo9atP/UsYvaGzL5sH7gs1LiBZay/OIb7uTPi4l1bdByOg044baBYuk zHZ8Jc47lCKbGTuxQa/AMnrXddIn9P6VRuBmpw2WTax1mT89H3uzD/iqNeQKUUDX jOZJ1alq10PoPbG8On4mlEgxJ5UQ0VePC0p3Itb5tQU9fW9/lLpmlm6CJOGDBd2n brheZA+dNdVtmVvXDiEjhALz5bF1bSOZinRM7tb4EGY22Frm4rXGbTrO4yv/W4sL /dxOXCZCWCcg9Dtf40J+uThVUNHi6c4V0J+E2rjOQshZ9AAmjWKLaVQuS0y1+ogt wshVfgHHHf1/4ZQyD3BRY5HXKrdRbHaGM12lHS9II6gdUGeaGlL49jVfrceBLeS9 v70w+E8jaYgj8K92qNwkI04q7bPt5chesb6DVSYEp8mJcYB5ZIFmIXjP3TuNFBbI Ya3qcFh1txHNKjRGPAUaweurI8pS/0jAj66o1CfHeE3nTa4ZkJr/rEskm3V5+NbI 8zazHhfFMMPUe8F90DwLsBNIILvmZBvWi4b9og3G6oj4lCQC3vzA6xE5c/5HOShm Lyxb/tfVTcqntAyvatzJt1K+dDqv6TBJPHQjWBTUnu0Y1JFPzKDoMovaTrm0gXlz QCsc4RsEb+3jTNuh/UYqB3Wuky1PkjNnJOb+RFIHgEytZhaDmBo= =Cb+5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_02CB27F2-F813-4037-80FC-4259B64F40A5--