From nobody Tue Sep 03 20:21:32 2024 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4WyxqF2GDmz52YJC for ; Tue, 03 Sep 2024 20:21:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-pj1-x1029.google.com (mail-pj1-x1029.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1029]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4WyxqF0dTqz4p0n for ; Tue, 3 Sep 2024 20:21:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-pj1-x1029.google.com with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-2da4ea973bdso1232079a91.1 for ; Tue, 03 Sep 2024 13:21:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20230601.gappssmtp.com; s=20230601; t=1725394904; x=1725999704; darn=freebsd.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=NTJqJExBWedSLL8MJrzQsx+DPBRpfgC0oJtveTUJT88=; b=QvKF+bv72AVZw9txD1h5HwzTdCKJLpuoHxu/3VN4rXcXWjuHhBA79J9YpmUV1xmucA D3r/a2XYQkEVf8s+Iu/UdbQkyMgeliyXoezphUhDMux0Sc6foS8rHh44GVZWZtgUfBHz 9sGbKrWRIid1EMJRt+tj2f1vVwzZAoIDek/19+cl6eOySKcEBJ4CyoJ9CK2WH4RASNw6 O25a/2spTRYi9v65av2orx3fFBw7/eZ7yJ+um/UHgrIc0G9A5+bqsp7pMmOWm+7Zt/TZ LIADRj2JGo7DZfUDxMIwwSKjuMkyrtBkybXob3hg/sdSf0R6aUvuiERfdCc1RZ+KhFQM fhJA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1725394904; x=1725999704; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=NTJqJExBWedSLL8MJrzQsx+DPBRpfgC0oJtveTUJT88=; b=fgfGR1rUS3JXJsan4Wtd9vzTpV4JK03Pfg66W1ukXogosP9xE6CJLPVymgDRqiQtPA LiIqX0rDxA9TG2K3dd/1R1Mkmu5FYu2cWnmjP4Npud/e9EmXCo2wFu6i7A87u6gwY4Ia q9SNzQ+8OytAYdIvjBH1rm4ydQXfeCOg+DdN2VzjTUheAYHhdOg7dVe6+3AShxRz3dnI lfw8Tiv2LSjryXhxEgK2freTt39whsvmehtV/7yeJu6uXvdzEyYIyvdWjaghaJxBc5UA 2Th7KLFqpO8d+t58yd6pV50YiKARkQ3MGkCpIH1FotZ5kqEquK3q6z9SUzvSdgGLXgN5 20sQ== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCVVgZF1oBz3D/K/fkxyq9UdPq763B6jGjfyE4WYXBpZx6oU6aIvLrmfm6GZCs/NVXV4UAxgrRQSqxCmMclXlkc=@freebsd.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YynCF6oCF4vleBfyfsq0tyUuoMIwtLrrvhbuprnVSjZmkUjccj2 ldRygxSu+A1WIUN2e0CSoqyexA7vuIeRTigCYIU8cdfubRLkdHJ9HjRgDx5PnhvSYatZN3nJdVm 0//7kE1C1e7wNQ8OoM9MGtZHoym9MvKi6AdcDXGRi7vMTUKMu X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHc9JcdcRtqOPJm5pS5URjaXzClW+riOdOl07wOmzUdPMSBUEpltdpHTg6zz5bBXn7UY9JFKA2P2USWA9NSBEk= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:198c:b0:2d8:8f16:17a1 with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-2d88f163805mr13376445a91.14.1725394903775; Tue, 03 Sep 2024 13:21:43 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202409031532.483FW0If007252@critter.freebsd.dk> <202409031950.483JoBuh009465@critter.freebsd.dk> In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2024 14:21:32 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: It's not Rust, it's FreeBSD (and LLVM) To: Alan Somers Cc: Poul-Henning Kamp , FreeBSD Hackers Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000056585306213cce70" X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4WyxqF0dTqz4p0n --00000000000056585306213cce70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Sep 3, 2024, 2:19=E2=80=AFPM Alan Somers wrot= e: > On Tue, Sep 3, 2024 at 1:50=E2=80=AFPM Poul-Henning Kamp > wrote: > > > > -------- > > Alan Somers writes: > > > > > For example, libifconfig and the /dev/cam/ctl ioctls are both unstabl= e. > > > A port that uses one of those and is built for FreeBSD 14.0 won't > > > necessarily work for 14.1. > > > > Isn't that also a problem today ? > > > > What difference does it make that src is distributed as a package ? > > Not "a package" but "many packages". The pkgbase concept builds a > separate package for almost every dir under lib, bin, sbin, usr.bin, > and usr.sbin. So the problem will be that libifconfig and its > consumers will be distributed separately, whereas they are currently > distributed together. > Won't versions and dependencies solve this? They aren't tied to a kernel version since its a stable ABI. Warnrr > -Alan > --00000000000056585306213cce70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Tue, Sep 3, 2024, 2:19=E2=80=AFPM Alan Somers <<= a href=3D"mailto:asomers@freebsd.org">asomers@freebsd.org> wrote:
On Tue, Sep 3, 2024 at 1:50=E2=80=AFP= M Poul-Henning Kamp <phk@phk.freebsd.dk> wrote:
>
> --------
> Alan Somers writes:
>
> > For example, libifconfig and the /dev/cam/ctl ioctls are both uns= table.
> > A port that uses one of those and is built for FreeBSD 14.0 won&#= 39;t
> > necessarily work for 14.1.
>
> Isn't that also a problem today ?
>
> What difference does it make that src is distributed as a package ?
Not "a package" but "many packages".=C2=A0 The pkgbase = concept builds a
separate package for almost every dir under lib, bin, sbin, usr.bin,
and usr.sbin.=C2=A0 So the problem will be that libifconfig and its
consumers will be distributed separately, whereas they are currently
distributed together.

Won't versions and dependencies solve this? They a= ren't tied to a kernel version since its a stable ABI.

Warnrr
-Alan
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