From nobody Mon Apr 11 17:41:27 2022 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AA198D2612 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2022 17:41:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kevans@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Kcbkr04xJz4n7k for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2022 17:41:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kevans@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1649698900; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=0VzzMlT6cdPSmOK4GHT4nTtFVTISf5GrPQ8SbuaOYjk=; b=QhZXcoaImOu7IFK6cmC8jMDMqx9YsfNOOqI7epiEznmnpe7skV2zi/gb4Q6qnlmZ0veUin hjCZKaT1EBeaO3IrNLUd7qXotEB8Lart4qmQW+i3+EVsYVvtYq0GH8MzGe1FK1pS9T7hAA 7K5wzrG0PAOgZy5m3q3Rob00laSwRIQBhVDUWLCJ3krrQlRzPBpzBJg55Rvx3vf8MRsy93 lspIwOGru1Sl+x6vHI/5sEOdfiM6YU1RoMMw+kODV6Ixy7451RPP2WS8mQrB59KKMtXH61 OTrW1UpbxYcxYta7Jl2sCXE2z4bin+O+SdZsVnBGpNWI8Mrj+LnPL5P9jYz/MA== Received: from mail-lj1-f172.google.com (mail-lj1-f172.google.com [209.85.208.172]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1D4" (verified OK)) (Authenticated sender: kevans) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D257F4124 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2022 17:41:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kevans@freebsd.org) Received: by mail-lj1-f172.google.com with SMTP id u19so11463072ljd.11 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2022 10:41:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533ngGGLOkrryxop8eqxKUJCqZAlfqTSb9kX8lNcoVO6FKqWuVD8 ZDvNsYmHhmnAQOwvIEvubrLN195Nik5SlgUNzcQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwVdn9DcqeyrCuGG8Vki8JqwpTJuD3z6ZU51mSdfraRvbpRBQ3rrg9p7lYztQbpdJ8Af4LQKd1fUcL2y4iXEWk= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:9e19:0:b0:247:deb7:cd9f with SMTP id e25-20020a2e9e19000000b00247deb7cd9fmr20345997ljk.261.1649698898483; Mon, 11 Apr 2022 10:41:38 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202204111658.23BGwmcC073621@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> In-Reply-To: From: Kyle Evans Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2022 12:41:27 -0500 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: [RFC] patch's default backup behavior To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1649698900; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=0VzzMlT6cdPSmOK4GHT4nTtFVTISf5GrPQ8SbuaOYjk=; b=D4SZYy8/r8afak7hZZRTGKsnmsW/QnAGzfqa14l9jIt01VdluXJjXOTDOH2kmy5lBsQwv2 y3htcemRw+oAKBj6FoPkHZaUcEbuVKVxOv4BdMwkiW0lljTmE9He7Dh0UPqM3YWJ3CE9ax mFXCvrBAhIHNKlMPt+vIh7Rvf69kVkt0GhqxxJNHv1X0t6Ju9eoQjdgNYLo6nm0UgZAW+b FTHGtk3Cvr0eZ8K0kCCe/+RjKRNW0p35HUy/ZSvn5XkRNX7H5ZKeYEOJmcgYGyAERZq+nw vkjC1wjaWtjeAmFu6kTzbiBQ1ns1lxAjRmWAc+kp3eIMpMshFe5w20VUD1u8VQ== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1649698900; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=cj8JZQ7WA69OXe9VN5h6tamDwECdbJaV1y1cKUJT4RjaTmi3mUSgkqjQMwLKYDkM+G+CQJ fsn9CjByV/3KwxQRBXU1LjKJeX64krtvJ1vRSQsFnedMcLAWnQ1L8qVvcqkUKrceu2E8lG IR/Pm8ZvoGn5C9vxioYjZNu37GLCExuYZrMU6Aa9oys8RwNjs3yh9NZ264Y8Q0wdUPvucl 8j6y/G0ngbmQzlKjQyvOh5mEIo+IyktacVd7CSXvUEW3m/y204JypgQMS6dYhZfYyv6ssb HM4qGtMH7HV2SknbxIEoLXYbWr7lh7JKo/RcfJE1gNzVgnfVTzRqmYWZQojRNw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 12:07 PM Kyle Evans wrote: > > On Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 11:59 AM Rodney W. Grimes > wrote: > > > > > Am Fri, Apr 08, 2022 at 10:25:08PM -0500 schrieb Kyle Evans: > > > > I'd like to test the waters on switching this to the GNU behavior, > > > > which feels a whole lot more reasonable. Notably, they'll only create > > > > backup files if a mismatch was detected (presumably this means either > > > > a hunk needed fuzz or a hunk outright failed). This yields far fewer > > > > backup files in the ideal scenario (context entirely matches), while > > > > still leaving backup files when it's sensible (base file changed and > > > > we might want to regenerate the patch). > > > > > > > > Thoughts / comments / concerns? > > > > > > Personally, I'm more often annoyed by the GNU behavior than not. > > > Especially when working on pkgsrc, the GNU behavior of > > > sometimes-not-creating-backups actually breaks tooling. I also consider > > > the rationale somewhat fishy as tools like sed have historically not > > > operated in-place. > > > > Personally, if YOU like the behavior of gnu patch, by all means, > > please USE gnu patch. Please do NOT make bsd patch behave in > > a different manner simply because you personally like that > > other behavior. > > > > If you want the stuff to look like Linux/GNU by all means, > > go RUN linux/gnu!!!! > > > > Your response is completely missing the point, and could have been omitted. > This response was unnecessarily short. I'll expand on that, to be constructive. If you re-read the original e-mail, including the subject line, this is a 'request for comments'. I'm trying to assess the social and technical hurdles to something like this, as well as gauge the community interest. Userbases evolve, software evolves, peoples' needs evolve, all over time -- assessing this kind of stuff over time is a useful exercise. I expressed my preference and requested others' commentary. In return, I've received a mixed split of opinion, and I've received some technical issues as well. We've had a relatively healthy discussion, and as a result this change will likely not happen. What's not helpful is e-mails like the above, which simply attacked my position while adding nothing of value to the discussion. This kind of attack has no place in a healthy discussion, and I would encourage you to refrain from doing that in the future. Thanks, Kyle Evans