From nobody Fri Nov 26 18:19:11 2021 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AB9718BAA54 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2021 18:19:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-ua1-x934.google.com (mail-ua1-x934.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::934]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1D4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4J13166CTxz3PQ9 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2021 18:19:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-ua1-x934.google.com with SMTP id a14so20336353uak.0 for ; Fri, 26 Nov 2021 10:19:22 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=hLlQIDPYxXhMzp8Hgpw7YDWdRfDNlZsRk715ZR+JHfg=; b=FV/BcLfKNpBzIn6u2HZN8kMNwNIwc56AoVG0qzvkkHqUKFhd8BSMYoSCHuY3FtQMmt 8HVVrwQ+wrB6Vo1b1HiijB6zPR7S4IfwIsdwnr0zMxSHwsGqgomRFWQRGdl20dHQVeGV O+a2/mzoIpER/gYmu+W9htxiEvDN81daSA+QBk7A4mtc43ALJ3v5KvYPuZo4k9W7CgGU rA0JIhcZTEwuQUDxrbbd0zgzLcHxb7KN+1wu6bkftG14+qMMGjb+M6KkI0l9eEgLIq2P Ny+DHNLJtaqNuB+PQnXK2eB2WG7hvjv1TpPLFKic1+GzAQsmtfv6vxKpBEPmO5XyFqFv 1MXQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=hLlQIDPYxXhMzp8Hgpw7YDWdRfDNlZsRk715ZR+JHfg=; b=u1L3EyRfCPCUm22UPKHeLX2XPlJ0pGH+cxQsJX6WJ0drg+Xb6AgeVSsgSSLOqtMyn8 4TmtTbfIA2m5NhG0j9GDq70k09VB8BJeww36DTtnpVoC0qp2Ugwwa/4QpBYEYtLMUnj+ cUe0wEby7BHFImDbAXUp0NOLyFR4JuTXEM/8yLcGF6+K1rbhnowuBor7qQ8FegJmEup8 tQONgx1Z3k7l8BdGjGgHH2qC9BPys3Q64Qqlfn1ldVbgMk2Z3mobZ/BC7AUK8yGORjbu 3lTojiCkadW6nqbvQ2LI23JwCmYJzlqlwUvwasFI/RAthxLn4dtQDk9pX5VAJchj4HSO dmHQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531zNyC7C1EA2dqAMY22SgTJWKpLsIllGk/J869Qx5+FLGVVU7T6 CT8fz/Gg7GJRLrzG/shtqVWE0RzcLw0raEwlqNGmjw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzLu+mxXQ0GfpVn7cw+4aiCRqPANz1b1UHll2r8Ow4LVSf0r0GEY5v8Xtm+189inPKKzp2FmzkLeqagX21HoBQ= X-Received: by 2002:a67:f950:: with SMTP id u16mr19011388vsq.68.1637950762226; Fri, 26 Nov 2021 10:19:22 -0800 (PST) List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202111261709.1AQH9sHg025507@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> <20211126180239.rwuaaq3onohjoywv@aniel.nours.eu> In-Reply-To: <20211126180239.rwuaaq3onohjoywv@aniel.nours.eu> From: Warner Losh Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2021 11:19:11 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Retiring WITHOUT_CXX To: Baptiste Daroussin Cc: "Rodney W. Grimes" , Ed Maste , FreeBSD Hackers Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000057aa6705d1b52154" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4J13166CTxz3PQ9 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: Y --00000000000057aa6705d1b52154 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Fri, Nov 26, 2021 at 11:04 AM Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > For any embedded systems the WITHOUT_* have never been enough and there > are way > to build a very very tiny viable FreeBSD image in an industrial manner > which are > way more efficient that the WITHOUT KNOBS. I am not saying we should stop > providing those, just we should stop maintaining the one that makes no > sense > anymore or are very complicated to maintain. > Has anybody ever done the radical experiment of instrumenting a 'fat' system with filemon to see everything that's used/touched during operations and tailoring lists of files to include based on that (plus maybe some white listing for things like supported locales)? Warner --00000000000057aa6705d1b52154--