From nobody Thu Nov 24 07:39:59 2022 X-Original-To: freebsd-fs@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4NHqfR25d4z4hTKP for ; Thu, 24 Nov 2022 07:40:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Alexander@leidinger.net) Received: from mailgate.Leidinger.net (bastille.leidinger.net [89.238.82.207]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature ECDSA (P-256)) (Client CN "mailgate.leidinger.net", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4NHqfQ4VZxz3lhB for ; Thu, 24 Nov 2022 07:40:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Alexander@leidinger.net) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=leidinger.net header.s=outgoing-alex header.b=3u1aaUL0; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of Alexander@leidinger.net designates 89.238.82.207 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=Alexander@leidinger.net; dmarc=pass (policy=quarantine) header.from=leidinger.net Received: from outgoing.leidinger.net (p5b165cc5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [91.22.92.197]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) client-signature ECDSA (P-256)) (Client CN "outgoing.leidinger.net", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mailgate.Leidinger.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 69A0A22DF8 for ; Thu, 24 Nov 2022 08:40:25 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=leidinger.net; s=outgoing-alex; t=1669275625; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=RtbGenjkRfGxQ42pg8lN12zXvK4qRkSpE8amrJ58Vuc=; b=3u1aaUL0gJ+hhlvlKTYM6bmecFTTEXZRR9kr3PRyFVxlGVZWnl+YrskTzM4l6Oo+twIRuB U2HbWGPjuW5ahe1+sinHFcmiXXcgk3ZKZzuR5iYnoQZB5BoI8a9OJ59i/0YQ/uk8zdX5g0 4uWybmoN7tbwPAcK2xn1FBzroRRD0M9LHfXG35e+IW/u33YmvSlUHoSIF/6P6EbHHZCyMa 2Dhduv3kXF2DgD/dgXs25U4lUPzau4EuDl48M55rnA1ARnF3b61RfZFo7g+cAfwtQj5ocq Z73E6Z+Z/xPsIamCZ7DwQqHwzcgbb8PIOSf6yYoYNqtuBFC6TuSVoGJerwB4Uw== Received: from webmail.leidinger.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by outgoing.leidinger.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1E713839 for ; Thu, 24 Nov 2022 08:39:59 +0100 (CET) Received: from www (uid 80) (envelope-from Alexander@leidinger.net) id 8a9af by webmail.leidinger.net (DragonFly Mail Agent v0.13+ on webmail.leidinger.net); Thu, 24 Nov 2022 08:39:59 +0100 Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2022 08:39:59 +0100 Message-ID: <20221124083959.Horde.OuPEDUTGTdU8KNqv5AvN04y@webmail.leidinger.net> From: Alexander Leidinger To: Eric Borisch Cc: Warner Losh , Alan Somers , FreeBSD FS , John Kennedy , Nathan Whitehorn Subject: Re: UEFI question References: <20220531123221.n7ubs365ceeqo2d4@x1> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: de,en Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=_aWP2gTUCynVLSuhMP59XuN6"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256 List-Id: Filesystems List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-fs List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-fs@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.10 / 15.00]; SIGNED_PGP(-2.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.999]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[leidinger.net,quarantine]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[leidinger.net:s=outgoing-alex]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx:c]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,multipart/alternative,text/plain]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-fs@freebsd.org]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:+,3:~,4:~]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROMTLD(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[leidinger.net:+]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-fs@freebsd.org]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[6]; ASN(0.00)[asn:34240, ipnet:89.238.64.0/18, country:DE]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4NHqfQ4VZxz3lhB X-Spamd-Bar: ------ X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N This message is in MIME format and has been PGP signed. --=_aWP2gTUCynVLSuhMP59XuN6 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_kjiPzK6rTi2FFqwh863fEk9" This message is in MIME format. --=_kjiPzK6rTi2FFqwh863fEk9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; DelSp=Yes Content-Description: Textnachricht Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Quoting Eric Borisch (from Tue, 22 Nov 2022=20=20 17:50:08=20-0600): > On Tue, Nov 22, 2022 at 1:50 PM Warner Losh wrote: > >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2022, 11:42 AM Alan Somers wrote: >> =C2=A0 >> >>> I just noticed the same problem.=C2=A0 For mirrored installs, the >>> 13.1-RELEASE installer only formats the efi partition on one hard >>> disk.=C2=A0 Shouldn't it do both? >> >> =C2=A0 >> =C2=A0 >> We go back and forth on this question.... I think we should,=20=20 >>=20but others got grumpy when I suggested it. Maybe just all the=20=20 >>=20drives in the zpool used for the BE? >> >> =C2=A0 >> Warner > > =C2=A0 > Just a =E2=80=9Cyes, please.=E2=80=9D If you=E2=80=99re installing zf= s root on a mirror=20=20 >=20of disks, POLA suggests the required boot bits are on both disks, too. > =C2=A0 N disks instead of both disks please. All disks which are part of a redundant root pool should get=20=20 /everything/=20what is necessary to boot in case the primary boot drive=20= =20 of=20the pool fails. Theoretically we only need the amount of boot=20=20 redundancy=20to the level of redundancy degree of the pool (can't=20=20 rememeber=20if we now have support to boot from raidz, I only have=20=20 mirrors,=20but some of them with more than 2 disks), but as we can't=20=20 predict=20which drive fails until the redundancy level is reached, the=20= =20 only=20option we have is to mirror the freebsd-boot partition. If this is via gmirror or via independent partitions is another question. If we want to provide a drive failure resistant boot experience (and=20=20 the=20zfs pool types which offer redundancy make at least the users=20=20 believe=20we want to do that), there is not really an option to not do=20= =20 that. And=20while we're at it, I think we should mention in our upgrade=20=20 instructions=20(e.g. src/Makefile and src/UPDATING) how to update the=20=20 EFI=20parts too. Bye, Alexander. --=20 http://www.Leidinger.net=20Alexander@Leidinger.net: PGP 0x8F31830F9F2772BF http://www.FreeBSD.org netchild@FreeBSD.org : PGP 0x8F31830F9F2772BF --=_kjiPzK6rTi2FFqwh863fEk9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Description: HTML-Nachricht Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Quoting Eric Borisch <eborisch@= gmail.com> (from Tue, 22 Nov 2022 17:50:08 -0600):

On Tue, Nov 22, 2022 at 1:50 PM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:


On Tue, Nov 22, 2022, 11:42 AM Alan S= omers <asomers@= freebsd.org> wrote:
 

I just noticed the same problem.  For mirrored installs, the
13.1-RELEASE installer only formats the efi partition on one hard
disk.  Shouldn't it do both?

 
 
We go back and forth on this question.... I think we shou= ld, but others got grumpy when I suggested it. Maybe just all the drives in= the zpool used for the BE?
 
Warner
 
Just a “yes, please.” If you’re install= ing zfs root on a mirror of disks, POLA suggests the required boot bits are= on both disks, too.
 


N disks instead of both disks please.

All disks which are part of a redundant root pool should get everything= what is necessary to boot in case the primary boot drive of the pool = fails. Theoretically we only need the amount of boot redundancy to the leve= l of redundancy degree of the pool (can't rememeber if we now have support = to boot from raidz, I only have mirrors, but some of them with more than 2 = disks), but as we can't predict which drive fails until the redundancy leve= l is reached, the only option we have is to mirror the freebsd-boot partiti= on.

If this is via gmirror or via independent partitions is another question.
If we want to provide a drive failure resistant boot experience (and the zf= s pool types which offer redundancy make at least the users believe we want= to do that), there is not really an option to not do that.

And while we're at it, I think we should mention in our upgrade instruction= s (e.g. src/Makefile and src/UPDATING) how to update the EFI parts too.

Bye,
Alexander.

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