From nobody Sun Jun 26 09:55:26 2022 X-Original-To: freebsd-doc@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 992A187DDEF; Sun, 26 Jun 2022 09:55:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grembo@freebsd.org) Received: from mail.evolve.de (mail.evolve.de [213.239.217.29]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA512 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mail.evolve.de", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4LW5nz0ldqz4rMW; Sun, 26 Jun 2022 09:55:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grembo@freebsd.org) Received: by mail.evolve.de (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 0d0ede10; Sun, 26 Jun 2022 09:55:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail.evolve.de (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id caa4df6d (TLSv1.3:AEAD-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256:NO); Sun, 26 Jun 2022 09:55:27 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-E01B37ED-F1B1-43C0-BDCD-7999E94A0C67 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Id: Documentation project List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-doc List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: Posting netiquette: HTML, attachments etc. From: Michael Gmelin In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2022 11:55:26 +0200 Cc: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Message-Id: <753A27F9-9CEA-4592-A44F-91164917358B@freebsd.org> References: To: grarpamp X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (19E258) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4LW5nz0ldqz4rMW X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N --Apple-Mail-E01B37ED-F1B1-43C0-BDCD-7999E94A0C67 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On 26. Jun 2022, at 09:37, grarpamp wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BF >>=20 >> https://github.com/freebsd/freebsd-doc/blob/main/documentation/content/en= /books/handbook/eresources/_index.adoc >>=20 >> FreeBSD Handbook: Appendix C: updates and corrections >> https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3D264754 >>=20 >> I'm glad that HTML is supported. >=20 > No, people should not be sending HTML emails to lists. > Consult history of email netiquettes to discover the many why's. >=20 >> Also, I want support for things such as PNG. >=20 > Attachments are not necessarily against such netiquettes, > but rightly tend to be administratively size limited. >=20 >> What is the possibility of getting the/a "netiquette" link in >> the FreeBSD Mailinglist footer that is already appended to all >> the messages? >=20 > There is no such footer appended to the lists, because they're bloat. > Their aims usually better done at first via signup, in quarterly, and > via the occaisional involuntary and accepted friendly cluebat. >=20 >=20 >> we are dealing with real people working with the email >> clients available to them in 2022 >=20 > Same arguments was made in 1982 1992 2002 etc, and the netiquette > won validity for good reasons and is still taught trained and disciplined.= Trying to stop people from using UTF-8 is futile. Also, quoting various argu= ments from different people without context is bad style - I gave very speci= fic examples, including the fact that a lot of email is written on mobile de= vices where people don=E2=80=99t have control over many aspects of how thing= s are sent and I argued which parts of netiquette could/should still be foll= owed given the realities of today and where we need to relax if we want to h= ave communication happen on our mailing lists. My answer here is an example of that - there is no reasonable way to follow a= ny line length limits on a phone and it also automatically chooses the typog= raphically correct UTF-8 characters, even though I would prefer to use ASCII= - but there is no way I=E2=80=99ll change every single "=E2=80=98" to "'" m= anually or disable the features that make typing on such a device an accepta= ble experience. Just won=E2=80=99t happen. If your email client and/or your desktop can=E2=80=99t handle UTF-8, it=E2=80= =99s time to fix your setup. -m p.s. Is it really necessary to have this discussion on multiple lists? --Apple-Mail-E01B37ED-F1B1-43C0-BDCD-7999E94A0C67 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On 26. Jun 2022, at 09= :37, grarpamp <grarpamp@gmail.com> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF
= https://github.com/freebsd/freebsd-doc/blob/main/documentation/content= /en/books/handbook/eresources/_index.adoc

FreeBSD Handbook: Appendix C: updates and corrections
https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug= .cgi?id=3D264754

I'm glad that HTML is su= pported.

No, people should not= be sending HTML emails to lists.
Consult history of email n= etiquettes to discover the many why's.

Also, I want support for things such as PNG.

Attachments are not necessarily against= such netiquettes,
but rightly tend to be administratively s= ize limited.

What= is the possibility of getting the/a "netiquette" link in
the FreeBSD Mailinglist footer that is a= lready appended to all
the messages?

There is no su= ch footer appended to the lists, because they're bloat.
Thei= r aims usually better done at first via signup, in quarterly, and
= via the occaisional involuntary and accepted friendly cluebat.<= br>

we are d= ealing with real people working with the email
clients available to them in 2022

Same arguments was made in 1982 1992 2002 etc,= and the netiquette
won validity for good reasons and is sti= ll taught trained and disciplined.

Tryi= ng to stop people from using UTF-8 is futile. Also, quoting various argument= s from different people without context is bad style - I gave very specific e= xamples, including the fact that a lot of email is written on mobile devices= where people don=E2=80=99t have control over many aspects of how things are= sent and I argued which parts of netiquette could/should still be followed g= iven the realities of today and where we need to relax if we want to have co= mmunication happen on our mailing lists.

My answer here i= s an example of that - there is no reasonable way to follow any line length l= imits on a phone and it also automatically chooses the typographically corre= ct UTF-8 characters, even though I would prefer to use ASCII - but there is n= o way I=E2=80=99ll change every single "=E2=80=98" to "'" manually or disabl= e the features that make typing on such a device an acceptable experience. J= ust won=E2=80=99t happen.

If your email client and/or your= desktop can=E2=80=99t handle UTF-8, it=E2=80=99s time to fix your setup.

-m

p.s. Is it r= eally necessary to have this discussion on multiple lists?

= --Apple-Mail-E01B37ED-F1B1-43C0-BDCD-7999E94A0C67--