From nobody Thu Jun 23 09:13:09 2022 X-Original-To: freebsd-doc@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40A8D8698BD; Thu, 23 Jun 2022 09:13:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grembo@freebsd.org) Received: from mail.evolve.de (mail.evolve.de [213.239.217.29]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA512 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mail.evolve.de", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4LTF0x5vKKz3Hw2; Thu, 23 Jun 2022 09:13:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grembo@freebsd.org) Received: by mail.evolve.de (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id c139f199; Thu, 23 Jun 2022 09:13:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail.evolve.de (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 6b7d9e72 (TLSv1.3:AEAD-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256:NO); Thu, 23 Jun 2022 09:13:30 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2022 11:13:09 +0200 From: Michael Gmelin To: grarpamp Cc: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Posting Netiquette [ref: Threads "look definitely like" unreadable mess. Handbook project.] Message-ID: <20220623111309.45a38321.grembo@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: References: <20220623030118.GA59423@eureka.lemis.com> <20220623060320.aad6a631.freebsd@edvax.de> X-Face: $wrgCtfdVw_H9WAY?S&9+/F"!41z'L$uo*WzT8miX?kZ~W~Lr5W7v?j0Sde\mwB&/ypo^}> +a'4xMc^^KroE~+v^&^#[B">soBo1y6(TW6#UZiC]o>C6`ej+i Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAJFBMVEWJBwe5BQDl LASZU0/LTEWEfHbyj0Txi32+sKrp1Mv944X8/fm1rS+cAAAACXBIWXMAAAsTAAAL EwEAmpwYAAAAB3RJTUUH3wESCxwC7OBhbgAAACFpVFh0Q29tbWVudAAAAAAAQ3Jl YXRlZCB3aXRoIFRoZSBHSU1QbbCXAAAAAghJREFUOMu11DFvEzEUAGCfEhBVFzuq AKkLd0O6VrIQsLXVSZXoWE5N1K3DobBBA9fQpRWc8OkWouaIjedWKiyREOKs+3PY fvalCNjgLVHeF7/3bMtBzV8C/VsQ8tecEgCcDgrzjekwKZ7TwsJZd/ywEKwwP+ZM 8P3drTsAwWn2mpWuDDuYiK1bFs6De0KUUFw0tWxm+D4AIhuuvZqtyWYeO7jQ4Aea 7jUqI+ixhQoHex4WshEvSXdood7stlv4oSuFOC4tqGcr0NjEqXgV4mMJO38nld4+ xKNxRDon7khyKVqY7YR4d+Cg0OMrkWXZOM7YDkEfKiilCn1qYv4mighZiynuHHOA Wq9QJq+BIES7lMFUtcikMnkDGHUoncA+uHgrP0ctIEqfwLHzeSo+eUA66AqzwN6n 2ZHJhw6Qh/PoyC/QENyEyC/AyNjq74Bs+3UH0xYwzDUC4B97HgLocg1QLYgDDO1v f3UX9Y307Ew4AHh67YAFFsxEpkXwpXY3eIgMhAAE3R19L919nNnuD2wlPcDE3UeT L2ytEICQib9BXgS2fU8PrD82ToYO1OEmMSnYTjSqSv9wdC0tPYC+rQRQD9ESnldF CyqfmiYW+tlALt8gH2xrMdC/youbjzPXEun+/ReXsMCDyve3dZc09fn2Oas8oXGc Jj6/fOeK5UmSMPmf/jL+GD8BEj0k/Fn6IO4AAAAASUVORK5CYII= List-Id: Documentation project List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-doc List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-doc@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4LTF0x5vKKz3Hw2 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On Thu, 23 Jun 2022 04:14:40 -0400 grarpamp wrote: > >> the =C3=A2=E2=82=AC=C5=93> ;=C3=A2=E2=82=AC and leave empty lines bet= ween your text and the > >> original =20 >=20 > > Seems there is a charset mismatch. > > MUA displaying nonsense > > Oh the joy of UTF-8... ;-) =20 >=20 > https://unicode-table.com/en/sets/quotation-marks/ >=20 > The pages ... >=20 > https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/eresources/#eresources-mail > https://docs.freebsd.org/en/articles/freebsd-questions/ > https://docs.freebsd.org/en/articles/mailing-list-faq/ >=20 > ... are intermixing standard ASCII double quotes with questionably > gratuitous choice of using left and right double quotes via UTF-8, > which then may get slaughtered by non UTF-8 enabled cut-paste, > systems, lists, gui's, desktops, apps, and MUAs along the way. >=20 [... removed a lot of text ...] UTF-8 is here to stay, it's even enabled by default on our consoles. Mangling the charset by copy and pasting is probably caused by using a broken or badly configured email client, which needs to be fixed by the user. If you don't use UTF-8 everywhere today, I would highly recommend to do so (more and more cli tools rely on it). As much as I would like to see a couple of things go away (e.g., UTF-8 quotes where `"` and `'` would do, converting double hyphens to dashes and a lot of other automated things), in the end we are dealing with real people working with the email clients available to them in 2022 (especially in the mobile space). So, even though I like having a fixed line length limit, most email clients will use something to the effect of format=3Dflowed and we simply need to deal with that. The one thing that would make me happy is if people could use proper usenet quoting and - in case they do send HTML, which unfortunately is not easily controllable with all clients - don't mess with fonts. Both things seem hard to impossible to people using one of the many versions of Outlook. You would be surprised how many people don't even understand the concept of quoting these days and would ask "why are you starting your lines with '>'?"). Regarding over-quoting: I'm guilty of that as well, especially when writing on mobile. It's easy to lose oversight when writing on a small screen and if your email client is folding quoted paragraphs neatly away for you, so you often don't realize how much content you are about to send. So, long story short, I think asking people to use proper quoting and stick to plaintext (-looking) text is reasonable, anything beyond that is unrealistic and more harm than good. Cheers Michael p.s. Reduced the number of lists in Cc. --=20 Michael Gmelin