From nobody Fri Mar 07 13:13:53 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-desktop@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Z8RZL00Z4z5pKPB for ; Fri, 07 Mar 2025 13:14:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jon@xyinn.org) Received: from mail-10625.protonmail.ch (mail-10625.protonmail.ch [79.135.106.25]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "protonmail.com", Issuer "R11" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Z8RZK52pjz3HQx for ; Fri, 07 Mar 2025 13:14:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jon@xyinn.org) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=xyinn.org; s=protonmail2; t=1741353237; x=1741612437; bh=E93loEnaxsrTdvEHEhh9QpxlBJvXgl9NnunXX8/k4Us=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector:List-Unsubscribe:List-Unsubscribe-Post; b=La7Rn0HpZzukp2J3V4kkZEr/qBFLvDXPNvWr0M7DA6cNdzzXCF3hgUT2GmZDVL9Pl qA/D4PW8gSWo9IykhepfJfk9IfapYvXq5twgumSP6gC7He2iZhm8XLTMtHOvBJ3nKs ZaTGodGbugWSXwScn7ciHpqbchJh2Pj94cdswqqANJr1YTNgzKqEAN+ybWOb0bNvnc +fZSOEQEjqzEq4V9wkblBt6QgZBOxzfiSsgtcZjoGCFXs0fQ39mg5Ai9VPz714uy7U 9TyFQ4QgRGnxVECiUBgpFkkOojlIhWCXjHi7cQlIwxpwNEzBMLkMO1G37VKbmLE3zu 7iNxZYg1v5iEA== Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2025 13:13:53 +0000 To: "emaste@freebsdfoundation.org" From: Jonathan Vasquez Cc: "freebsd-desktop@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: FreeBSD Foundation Laptop Support target hardware and desktop environments Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: Feedback-ID: 12351801:user:proton X-Pm-Message-ID: 941520f3c4d0777ebca1ced1e0c42fc3608e14cd List-Id: Using and improving FreeBSD on the desktop List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-desktop List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-desktop@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Z8RZK52pjz3HQx X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Thanks for that feedback Ed. I also agree completely with that approach (co= incidentally Ive been using the Framework Laptop 13 (11th gen Intel) since = 2021 and reporting feedback on it's stats for basically all of the componen= ts since 2022. Around November 2024 I upgraded to the AMD Ryzen 7040 series= mainboards which luckily also aligned with the work you all are doing. I r= ecently updated my framework laptop page with all of that info. If we look at Apple, they have very well polished and supported machines, b= ut macOS only works on a very narrow set of hardware and specifications, th= ose chosen by Apple themselves. They aren't trying to have broad hardware s= upport. Similarly (and given the lack of resources) the same approach needs= to be applied here. Select one or two models and give it all you got. Once= there is a set of hardware that works 100%, then people can start using th= ose machines, joining the project, etc, and start to expand the FreeBSD eco= system forward, eventually leading to wider support based on the newly avai= lable resources and interest. Jonathan Vasquez PGP: 34DA 858C 1447 509E C77A D49F FB85 90B7 C4CA 5279 Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email -------- Original Message -------- On 3/6/25 23:09, Ed Maste wrote: > On Tue, Feb 11, 2025 at 8:41=E2=80=AFAM Ed Maste wrote: > > > > The FreeBSD Foundation's Laptop Support and Usability Improvements > > project is choosing a small list of laptops and of desktop > > environments that will be used as targets for our development effort. > > ... > =20 > Thanks everyone for all of the feedback. > =20 > One high-level comment is that our goal is to take a narrow but deep > focus: we'd rather have one laptop model where all functionality works > completely, than having several mostly functional models where for > example one has an audio quirk with headphone switching not working > and another where the special function keys don't work. I understand > the feedback that we need additional models though, and there are > candidates for inclusion in the supported list. Thinkpads and Dell > business laptops are already in the list; a few folks mentioned HP > Elitebook and it seems like a reasonable addition to the candidates. > =20 > We'll probably create a tiered list, where the first tier meets the > criteria mentioned (multiple developers with that model, vendor > support, target 100% functionality). The second tier would not meet > all of the criteria, but still has some relationship to our effort > (e.g., at least one developer has the model, we know what is > functional). > =20 > This is the same argument for focusing on KDE to start -- we'd prefer > one desktop environment where everything works, than two partially > functional ones. This doesn't mean that work on GLib or other > components is out of scope, just that KDE will be the environment we > use to test and measure our progress. > =20 >