From nobody Thu Jun 19 14:11:17 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-desktop@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bNMwf2qz0z5ykXN for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2025 14:11:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from amad@atl.tools) Received: from mail.atl.tools (mail.atl.tools [IPv6:2a01:4f8:212:47a8::2]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature ECDSA (secp384r1) client-digest SHA384) (Client CN "*.atl.tools", Issuer "E5" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bNMwd6wn7z3jks; Thu, 19 Jun 2025 14:11:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from amad@atl.tools) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Mailerdaemon) with ESMTPSA id 61BBB2A3CD; Thu, 19 Jun 2025 14:11:18 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=atl.tools; s=dkim; t=1750342280; h=from:subject:date:message-id:to:cc:mime-version:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:references; bh=bGAg8WEzwgfqqeY8MUHVwGinF9FPKOWvNV2MrCgtS/c=; b=Fm8BBjTQyCu/ns3hk8Q0JU+2cpI1cYJCBCedQgC+ioPwQwUNVqsXorGfsz88p1MnOBRZeG 96ow7b6Q9Wb6WyyJTNMKCfoYgm5aEXoDRLuh1nd0MBMB2jq2U6Kea8jwYpaMl9lLXO0/yb /D9ppOSXUhi5ccKvpr32D8dd5X1fWYJekx3lhBMLy2DGiEpE2imC0hqt7mA480drM50gQJ V/dsV0B8iJ+kIW3tBD2I1zv+N+hvrE4GxDuHaKO0E3Z15EuFD4MybkyjK989YUmam9ushv GAeGxa4OYVH95/7oe4lSEQCj9eHQain/ANbypla1ER4M5xAbskDJIt+J6aNZBg== List-Id: Using and improving FreeBSD on the desktop List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-desktop List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-desktop@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2025 15:11:17 +0100 Message-Id: Cc: Subject: Re: X11 vs Wayland: KiCAD story -> BSD Desktop. From: "Artur Manuel" To: "Dmitry Salychev" , "Tomek CEDRO" X-Mailer: aerc 0.20.1 References: <86v7otxgbb.fsf@peasant.bootbsd.com> In-Reply-To: <86v7otxgbb.fsf@peasant.bootbsd.com> X-Last-TLS-Session-Version: TLSv1.3 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bNMwd6wn7z3jks X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:2a01:4f8::/32, country:DE] On Wed Jun 18, 2025 at 3:33 PM BST, Dmitry Salychev wrote: > > Tomek CEDRO writes: > >> https://www.kicad.org/blog/2025/06/KiCad-and-Wayland-Support/ >> >> Some big projects seem to talk out loud about compatibility and >> maintenance issues of "modern" solutions as well as "enforced changes" >> ideologies in Open-Source :-) >> >> I like the "Linux is already a small section of the KiCad userbase" >> statement, that seems to confirm my old saying "Open-Source is much >> bigger than Linux, Linux is only small part of Open-Source" (aka >> "Linux is Open-Source, but Open-Source is not only Linux"). >> >> "Linux mindset" clearly means "enforced changes" and >> "self-incompatibility" which may be nail to its coffin in the long >> run. More and more people can see that clearly now. >> >> As European countries seem to ditch Microsoft solutions in the gov/edu >> areas and there is a very strong push now towards Open-Source, >> unfortunately still towards Linux as the first candidate, this may be >> a great chance for BSD to come out and take a lead with its solid >> roots and long term compatibility as the well established Desktop >> Environment. This opportunity should not be missed. >> >> I hope this will also be a good time to reveal Open-Source drivers >> problems, lack of development support from vendors, maybe gain funding >> from the governments, and that Linux will not lead this mess anymore. >> We should all have a common base for stable useful versatile and >> self-compatible drivers that can be used along on all Open-Source >> operating systems :-) >> >> Have a good day folks :-) >> Tomek > > I don't think that this is the project's mindset to aggressively compete > with GNU/Linux in general. I don't think that gov/edu folk really care > about actual replacement for Windows as soon as it'll be working just > fine to satisfy their needs either (they might even think... that > FreeBSD is another GNU/Linux distribution!). > > For example, I'll be running Xfce as long as it'll be necessary to have > a properly working KiCad and try Wayland stuff occasionally to have an > idea how im/mature it became. Not the other way around. > > Regards, > Dmitry I agree with you on the first paragraph. Governments should pick what they know will work the best. FreeBSD works very well, but I hardly doubt that government employees will know what it is. I also believe that even if they did know, they would likely believe that not enough software supports FreeBSD, so there wouldn't be a point in using it. This is quite the pessemistic view indeed, but I believe it is easy to get things right if you think of governments pessemistically. Coming from GNU/Linux (as well as non-GNU systems such as Alpine Linux) after using Wayland for a long time, I recently moved back to X.org not because X.org is better, but Wayland was too annoying to set up for me in FreeBSD. Common painpoints being xdg-desktop-portal (which was already a security risk but I would need it for sharing my screen which I do a lot) and a rare instance of one compistor not working due to the port I was using for drm-kmod. Contrastingly, everything worked in X11 as soon as it was installed, which also contrasted my experience with X11 in NixOS. --=20 Artur Manuel (amadaluzia)