Re: X11 vs Wayland: KiCAD story -> BSD Desktop.

I am on FreeBSD desktop since FreeBSD 9 (I started from PCBSD and then 
switched to 'classic' FreeBSD).

I tested almost all 'advanced' DEs and WMs (just GNOME was skipped 
because I saw it before and I did not like it).

Finally, I finished with Enlightenment DE and I'm still using it.

IMHO, Xorg itself is not resource intensive, but KDE is. If you try 
Enlightenment - you'll understand it ;)

As about X11Libre - I'm really excited to see it coming, I would like to 
find it in ports ASAP.

The global situation is definitely bad, we have finally the same 
situation as in closed source operating systems - big companies force 
users to change their habits and use THE software pushed by 'big boys'. 
It was the reason I switched to OSS many years ago, now the problem is 
back in OSS world.

I'm agree with Tomek, FreeBSD foundation should act at different, more 
conservative way, without breaking the existing software stack. They 
have everything for this. Now we must show to the whole OSS world that 
another way of development is possible.

Peter TKATCHENKO


On 19/06/2025 07:22, Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez wrote:
> Nice discussion :-)
> My day-to-day happens on Linux and macOS, but I have dedicated an
> older laptop to see what the BSD world has to offer.
> I settled for FreeBSD when 14.1 came out and then I've gone through
> both upgrades.
> My desktop is KDE because the image preview system is good enough to
> show my Pentax camera's raw images.
>   I'm mainly on x11 with occasional visits to wayland, as Dmitry, to
> "see what it does", or maybe, to be more precise, to see if I can
> avoid having to compile emacs-devel from the ports to get it running
> on x11. An alternative would be to include emacs-devel-x and
> emacs-devel-pgtk separately in the pkg repositories...
> Regarding FreeBSD is not Linux and showing that to people, yes sure,
> but that's less pressing in my priority list.
>  From the discussion, I'm interested in seeing what X11Libre has to offer.
> If they give us a less resource intensive graphics support system,
> then I'd be happy to forget wayland completely :-)
>
> My .2cents, /PA
>
>
> On Wed, 18 Jun 2025 at 17:27, Tomek CEDRO<tomek@cedro.info> wrote:
>> On Wed, Jun 18, 2025 at 4:41 PM Dmitry Salychev<dsl@freebsd.org> wrote:
>>> Tomek CEDRO<tomek@cedro.info> writes:
>>>
>>>> https://www.kicad.org/blog/2025/06/KiCad-and-Wayland-Support/
>>>>
>>>> Some big projects seem to talk out loud about compatibility and
>>>> maintenance issues of "modern" solutions as well as "enforced changes"
>>>> ideologies in Open-Source :-)
>>>>
>>>> I like the "Linux is already a small section of the KiCad userbase"
>>>> statement, that seems to confirm my old saying "Open-Source is much
>>>> bigger than Linux, Linux is only small part of Open-Source" (aka
>>>> "Linux is Open-Source, but Open-Source is not only Linux").
>>>>
>>>> "Linux mindset" clearly means "enforced changes" and
>>>> "self-incompatibility" which may be nail to its coffin in the long
>>>> run. More and more people can see that clearly now.
>>>>
>>>> As European countries seem to ditch Microsoft solutions in the gov/edu
>>>> areas and there is a very strong push now towards Open-Source,
>>>> unfortunately still towards Linux as the first candidate, this may be
>>>> a great chance for BSD to come out and take a lead with its solid
>>>> roots and long term compatibility as the well established Desktop
>>>> Environment. This opportunity should not be missed.
>>>>
>>>> I hope this will also be a good time to reveal Open-Source drivers
>>>> problems, lack of development support from vendors, maybe gain funding
>>>> from the governments, and that Linux will not lead this mess anymore.
>>>> We should all have a common base for stable useful versatile and
>>>> self-compatible drivers that can be used along on all Open-Source
>>>> operating systems :-)
>>>>
>>>> Have a good day folks :-)
>>>> Tomek
>>> I don't think that this is the project's mindset to aggressively compete
>>> with GNU/Linux in general. I don't think that gov/edu folk really care
>>> about actual replacement for Windows as soon as it'll be working just
>>> fine to satisfy their needs either (they might even think... that
>>> FreeBSD is another GNU/Linux distribution!).
>>>
>>> For example, I'll be running Xfce as long as it'll be necessary to have
>>> a properly working KiCad and try Wayland stuff occasionally to have an
>>> idea how im/mature it became. Not the other way around.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Dmitry
>> Thanks Dmitry, I fully agree and work the same, but I can see the
>> opportunity here to show people the difference between Linux and
>> FreeBSD so they are at least aware there are other OS out there in the
>> Open-Source world and _why_ FreeBSD is not yet another Linux
>> distribution :-)
>>
>> Also this kind of big moves may indicate a clear directions and goals
>> for the LDWG (Laptop Desktop Working Group) from the market demands
>> point of view not only what we as users/developers think we want :-)
>>
>> --
>> CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ,http://www.tomek.cedro.info
>>
>
> --
> Fragen sind nicht da, um beantwortet zu werden,
> Fragen sind da um gestellt zu werden
> Georg Kreisler
>
> Sagen's Paradeiser, write BE!
> Year 1 of the New Koprocracy
>