From nobody Tue Feb 18 12:31:30 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-desktop@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4YxzR95Djkz5nXBB for ; Tue, 18 Feb 2025 12:31:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jbeich@freebsd.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:6074::16:84]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "freefall.freebsd.org", Issuer "R11" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4YxzR94lj2z3KMH; Tue, 18 Feb 2025 12:31:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jbeich@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1739881893; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=yWHTlB2ljAy9iVCoKazWJvmUYtfCiKibIM3BQpU1moU=; b=jxn5lY6MMR/5GVWC9e9K00/Z6mNbTNb0WuHxARiDa60kQ1wUX/CYP7Kx43UuuKWJlMVNPv Pa8rlqOYWlljIgY4vQOCfL4e2XrAPOM2peMsnqjURSzidM1O+wUCpkbT1nQId5uQ70ui0e SH1w0txHerKQmBzF6mIyQQsYEaTUiw+NYpXdQEBQiNgY3eOp9XO4l7umi+LbHm54W8Vlgj 5qb67aL+BTDblK9xkSV4W6DQ1qG7gNBW+0a9O+oxzJCFEvnDCtRqg6G49WEWGTWTOlyT94 baRWpa98hG8feNq/9fzIJXGcYYxpD5RVBmfE9agTZGYPBYM3Av5+dkiatXGKDg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1739881893; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=KViNpzVsKWqSbZztDrsTv7U8Dz3HpVwcVvG55u9ibcP0GX8utatq84/WcfIxmcuTSEgnTl inniIyEYVBBCitxWeALyiJv2y6cwRwlGESb9ERTrSby0MTRp4PGOhjy0TxMpQV1lxCt2ap n3kG7aCGOGHXlQAJD5M0jFt9hRrVpTW9fVVAPH9nZ5ckEQ5UTWO4FZQlCF4ER79qAjlj8L su/lTemPrh3u2LDSIRY5fXaTjuLq80jpN9Sv6BC6MgiErtDvGlE1vj/QnDoqvBGY5gdWV9 mNyaGiFLM5JMnweBIYQypTIyTVhnKNE+amdknCCfZtVy747hIP4r0bGNOuSP+g== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1739881893; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=yWHTlB2ljAy9iVCoKazWJvmUYtfCiKibIM3BQpU1moU=; b=Sbrd7M+mADpUcsJfvG56Utep8sp3sxp8R1Tr75yo5/jvHGiwPf12Y3R0MDCreSmxMBl/Rg iqqY8s+XayFbosem+VcI+5QfiNFyQrcVwN6ZG0BVLLzfX/BEbJS+hy9SL+sPKUJFOha8HX X2pou2XQC/Y9UEw6Hp+LDLeJql5q//+ur9dNwirPG6sh0/V4TZWimy5/e3Y4VOgZRHBKUK wcjE+PZjEilrNZALLZ/9+TeGu42uaPirgldW7Hv8MEcFYS5RWj8i+fnWCoORBe/WcvIzmG iizr2vLhVazYAmT8vlTpUusrbF2NJBQclPtHLlGqOWhgxbTNEKhBwauwvGkh7Q== Received: by freefall.freebsd.org (Postfix, from userid 1354) id 8DAB314189; Tue, 18 Feb 2025 12:31:33 +0000 (UTC) From: Jan Beich To: Mike Watkins Cc: Ed Maste , freebsd-desktop@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Foundation Laptop Support target hardware and desktop environments In-Reply-To: <8f8d6ff6677ddf569e81ac103acf22a1d0e7ec64.camel@solutionroute.ca> (Mike Watkins's message of "Thu, 13 Feb 2025 18:01:44 +0000") References: <8f8d6ff6677ddf569e81ac103acf22a1d0e7ec64.camel@solutionroute.ca> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2025 13:31:30 +0100 Message-ID: List-Id: Using and improving FreeBSD on the desktop List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-desktop List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-desktop@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Mike Watkins writes: > Some will argue that GNOME is too systemd-centric to be a good fit for > FreeBSD; I'd argue that I've used it on systemd-free Linux > distributions for years, and also suggest that active support on non- > systemd Linux platforms, and non-Linux platforms, can only help to > avoid systemd lock-in from becoming a future reality. > > Current GNOME 47 ships on a variety of non-systemd Linux distributions > including Alpine and Chimera Linux; on Void Linux (also non-systemd) > they tend to skip one GNOME release a year. Many systemd-free systems still rely[1] on elogind for GNOME. elogind is extracted from systemd but not really portable to non-Linux kernels. For one, InitWare ported many systemd components but not logind[2]. For two, Chimera Linux created turnstile to replace elogind but still uses elogind[3] for GNOME. GNOME/X11 on FreeBSD patches some components[4] to use ConsoleKit2 instead of logind. GNOME/Wayland requires more[5] not implemented[6] by ConsoleKit2. Individual GNOME apps aren't affected and can work under other Wayland compositors like Wayfire. Note, upstream GNOME (unlike KDE) doesn't want ConsoleKit2 support[7]. [1] https://sysdfree.wordpress.com/2024/12/28/363/ lists a few without elogind but unclear which have GNOME packaged. Sometimes one can find patches like https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=273161 [2] https://github.com/InitWare/InitWare/issues/19 [3] https://github.com/chimera-linux/cports/blob/6b44e828fbfd/main/mutter/template.py#L29 [4] https://github.com/freebsd/freebsd-ports/tree/48495a1f33ab/x11/gdm/files/patch-common_gdm-common.h https://github.com/freebsd/freebsd-ports/tree/48495a1f33ab/x11/gnome-shell/files/patch-js_misc_loginManager_js https://github.com/freebsd/freebsd-ports/tree/48495a1f33ab/sysutils/gnome-settings-daemon/files/patch-plugins_media-keys_gsd-media-keys-manager.c [5] https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=271836 [6] sd_uid_get_display() and maybe https://github.com/ConsoleKit2/ConsoleKit2/issues/150 [7] https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/-/issues/1411