Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature

On August 9, 2025 9:29:25 AM GMT+03:00, David Greenman-Lawrence <dg@dglawrence.com> wrote:
>> i think vermadden actually "screamed" because this turned into kind of a "desbsd" discussion. isn't "vmdbsd" either. is, well, "free" bsd, funnily
>> 
>> before this turns into complete virtual fistfight...
>> 
>> who has authority on this os anyway?
>> 
>> i already once mentioned elsewhere that not much goes on in fbsd. as compared to eg, ff. i consider mozilla having gone past "user is our friend approach" lately. unfortunately without users, projects become meaningless
>> 
>> but here?
>> 
>> who has, like, powers? is it:
>> 
>> old devs who have write access to src repo?
>> new devs who have write access to src repo?
>> currently elected core?
>> any of previous core?
>> any original guys like mckusick?
>> big companies?
>> small companies?
>> sysadmins?
>> users?
>> random hackers?
>> sunday fbsd users?
>> the foundation?
>> any other known guys?
>> or i mean gals, we have those too, tho i only recall one once had fights over inclusion problems which i don't mind of who wrote the code
>> any nation state?
>> who else?
>
>   In the mid 1990s, for a short time, it would have been me - David Greenman
>as FreeBSD "Principal Architect". I didn't wear that hat very long, because
>something not too dissimilar to this came up and I tried to find a compromise
>solution that neither party liked. It was a nightmare and ultimately I was
>blamed for it. I realized that an authority, at least within a single
>person, was not the right way to resolve these things, so I voluntarily
>resigned the position.
>
>   You've said a lot of interesting things, and I apologize for trimming
>your message for brevity. If others want to selectively respond to that,
>then they should quote you directly.
>
>   FWIW, I do have an opinion on this: I think that "pkg delete -af" is
>a useful thing that should not destroy your base system. We should find
>a way to make that work as it always has - to restore a system to its
>base without destroying it. Now, how to do that? Well, one way is the
>separate pkgbase. Another is to have some way to flag or protect the
>base packages so that they are not included in this instance - make
>them immutable somehow. It just doesn't make sense to destroy the running
>system no matter how you slice it.
>
>-DG
>
> *  Dr. David G. Lawrence
>* * DG Labs
>    Pave the road of life with opportunities.
>

... to be honest, i never expected "bsd (grand)fathers" to come out to this ...

the ones i didn't even know existed. it's a, ehm, naturally vanishing pool anyway

sometimes the youngers go away as well. mean permanently. some might move to other projects too. both cases are sad

funnily, this os has been around for so long that there are several generations of people here now! perhaps 2-3 g

and that's a good thing, isn't it? the os, and it's descendants are still here and being used. and we have fights too. even that is a kind of sign. because it would be much worse if nobody would care anymore. then the os is dead

i'm here for slow pace and no changes. it's funny because that fits with my personality as well

i mean, have you heard what cursewords people have for bsds? never heard of unstable. no standards. etc. never heard of any this. however, they could say. too slow. no hw support. etc

sometimes people move away to linux due this. sometimes they come back for stability

the "os wars" are weird to me as well. they all have pros and cons.

probably i have nothing else to say anymore