From nobody Sat Aug 09 09:54:18 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bzbpT69jsz63tqd for ; Sat, 09 Aug 2025 09:54:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) Received: from www121.sakura.ne.jp (www121.sakura.ne.jp [153.125.133.21]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bzbpT0TWcz3HV4; Sat, 09 Aug 2025 09:54:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from kalamity.joker.local (124-18-43-114.area1c.commufa.jp [124.18.43.114]) (authenticated bits=0) by www121.sakura.ne.jp (8.18.1/8.17.1/[SAKURA-WEB]/20201212) with ESMTPA id 5799sIge020174; Sat, 9 Aug 2025 18:54:20 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=dec.sakura.ne.jp; s=s2405; t=1754733260; bh=Ct5jZKKz5/g8SP5oJ0jPR93ti/2+BmQYsUnuEy0CpJI=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=tuqa2+BPspeMV8Y782m3CFYafB3y6iRdYHLMfK+wWbKy1atmdaMeNtt7hprkACdjs 8PWLLwjZZjci5NQt9F2Q8fiSB2kwymyUhIsiFD9+uQrhKVPomGkkvEoGEucDfT16iI N5JZFjVSWpoC642v4aIKJthxpUitxfctGrTfC4dY= Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2025 18:54:18 +0900 From: Tomoaki AOKI To: mmel@FreeBSD.org Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature Message-Id: <20250809185418.7d272536dd5862d0bdfd39c2@dec.sakura.ne.jp> In-Reply-To: <96820ff6-bdb0-4d25-ad78-502e30b7e479@FreeBSD.org> References: <20250809062925.GN26557@mailx.dglawrence.com> <929543B2-633E-44B5-B6F6-F292CCEADAB3@freebsd.org> <20250809065247.GO26557@mailx.dglawrence.com> <96820ff6-bdb0-4d25-ad78-502e30b7e479@FreeBSD.org> Organization: Junchoon corps X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.33; amd64-portbld-freebsd14.3) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bzbpT0TWcz3HV4 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7684, ipnet:153.125.128.0/18, country:JP] On Sat, 9 Aug 2025 09:08:53 +0200 Michal Meloun wrote: > On 8/9/2025 8:52 AM, David G Lawrence wrote: > >> On 9 Aug 2025, at 07:29, David Greenman-Lawrence wrote: > >>> > >>> FWIW, I do have an opinion on this: I think that "pkg delete -af" is > >>> a useful thing that should not destroy your base system. We should find > >>> a way to make that work as it always has > >> > >> Today, it will destroy any kernel modules installed from packages, including those necessary for the display to work. It will destroy the ability for WiFi to work if you???re using wifibox. There are a lot of other things in ports that are essential to the system for some systems. > > > > We can fix that, too. ...but destroying kernel modules doesn't mean your > > system doesn't work - it just means X11 won't work when you reboot - but then > > it wouldn't anyway because you deleted X11. But, here's the thing: X11 didn't > > work when you first installed the base system, either. And perhaps your > > Wifi didn't work out of the box, either. So you have some work to do to > > get back basic functionality - but you knew that when you did the > > "pkg delete -af" in the first place. > > > > -DG > > I cannot but agree wholeheartedly.. The actual situation with > pkg delete and pkgbase is (for me) simply absurd. > > kmod in the ports is a different problem – it shows the inability of > FBSD developers to implement these things on their own, so this > solution has some problems. And don't kill me, I fully understand that > it's not possible , but that doesn't change the previous fact. > > Michal Sometimes yes, but sometimes no. On early but widely testable developement phase for drivers, especially SD card drivers, network (including but not limited with WiFi) drivers and disk controllers, base is not a good place even for FreeBSD-native drivers. This is because turnaround time for implememt (fix) / test / commit on base is usually take much longer days (or even months!) than in ports. So recently, AFAIK, some drivers are first developed as kmod ports, and once stabilized, merged into main branch of src. What comes in my mind is rtsx driver for Realtek SD card reader driver. -- Tomoaki AOKI