Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature

On 01/08/2025 16:22, David Chisnall wrote:
> On 31 Jul 2025, at 02:57, Miroslav Lachman <000.fbsd@quip.cz> wrote:
>>
>> I would also like to separate it. Use one command to update (upgrade) 
>> 3rd party packages and another to update (upgrade) base packages. It 
>> is our workflow for the last 25+ years thus running one command to 
>> update both is really unexpected and unwanted.
> 
> I disagree here.  If you *want* to separate them, then you can: you can 
> specify the repository that you want to upgrade explicitly.  But if you 
> do then you risk things like:
> 
>   - I’ve upgraded my base system, but not my ports-kmods things, so now 
> my GUI doesn’t start.
>   - I’ve upgraded ports, but the ports tree is built on a newer point 
> release and I need to upgrade to make some symbols exist.
>   - I’ve upgraded the base system and now some kmods from ports don’t work.
> 
> All of these are things that users have complained about publicly in the 
> last year or so.
> 
> I have avoided them by always doing `freebsd-update install && pkg 
> upgrade` and keeping that in my shell history[1] so I don’t accidentally 
> forget to upgrade both together.
> 
> Given a choice between a thing that works for users, or something that 
> *can* work for users but comes with a bunch of footguns that they need 
> to avoid, I’d pick the former.
> 
> David
> 
> [1] I’ve noticed on fresh installs, the default shell no longer has 
> working persistent history, which is a *big* POLA violation, if people 
> want to complain about something.

I see your point, but our workflow is much different. One command to 
upgrade base and packages at the same time is like "one to break it all" 
to me.
I have seen broken "pkg upgrade" so many times... but it never breaks 
base and running ssh so I am still able to fix it somehow..
Running FreeBSD for more than 25 years on tens of machines (headless 
servers) and I never need to do upgrade of base and packages at the same 
time. I am not saying nobody need it. Yes it can be useful on upgrading 
desktops or other installations with kmods, but I think it still can be 
done in 2 separate steps to keep the base untouched if user wants it.
Mainly when there is another step needed - etcupdate. Having base and 
packages upgraded and only then fixing conflicts with etcupdate seems 
very bad idea to me.

Kind regards
Miroslav Lachman