From nobody Wed Sep 29 06:38:50 2021 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1024A17E5E3B; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 06:38:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grarpamp@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vs1-xe2c.google.com (mail-vs1-xe2c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::e2c]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HK6Cb2bYDz4ZQw; Wed, 29 Sep 2021 06:38:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from grarpamp@gmail.com) Received: by mail-vs1-xe2c.google.com with SMTP id h30so1733115vsq.3; Tue, 28 Sep 2021 23:38:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ECLFz+Gxcq/pZ14kUFy8+ArIT1MZ5u+TDZdUJj204AM=; b=E6m29RH/HNWJPCbC5ZV6GFrw9PFqvzm4bV3ZL4D+QlnQt2qruMUX+Ux6cH2/Ty6/M2 mIYMtbF2FBMu7TTYSjl/zgBEYpzph8LpXWs0shUmuNwB8EQvmQ9lWr6Rz4BJ557E+lYM 5xwWLtiBCv1J9FE90fDOyC5OQXn6SE0rym1PTDlKYiM6gyjAd1pXW1uMHz8gihhCAuBN o3ANOkgXOAd36aBnPCuyu+Z1WT5zZRi9mqD0x1RRjxGqPBcGLHJiSJ3MGSZOJHjaw59a T0bsS1RmShwhg/hGIia1ZuX2jdskxeNmghA0VdzL+aoPdL5l1b5g4cQFKRVP0F4x9p+a cDDA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ECLFz+Gxcq/pZ14kUFy8+ArIT1MZ5u+TDZdUJj204AM=; b=AwEtD6T9WWTC1OqDcacHa7goAQE7y3qOtI4NkwbZRYYE5V0YgRyjBIZfTQBvEWDS4s pU5/Y6WbvRmDmQPg06dfWTyTe3z+Vk+zsIhUH4Sdr8lm897qCsJ1JpeyCj360Qwhv19k SwTaOe3fBHtLFQZaD0iYVnSVEPnI0yDegGRY6vXkR0x8X3BmsgxBuNtisdzPvLlJ5myv EkiY3noccSvpceYwPNMSWf5ogD8gpoCqqGrM9uYz+1D3lubCxDYSJ/g4BsRbIqZWtp4x lWwMxm7xK6UnQx1TpcDDWS01Eumv7zlr1TpoZARVeV7zOZupbVfaJ5bsw+fhWpFtD0qc g7fQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531c9Qj5ojGm9aJASV4weUOJ1c+wjzR7V+XQMkM2T1am88MSVvSd /PITO53ovk04q2l2acSiD7efYKCfZnTl63Uj33cA6iyCYKqQHdbA X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzOXBO6oVbcuKr26qnhaukSY+rdk3+MBqNcuaZA5PwyP8NF2WphK5XnlS+y+NiBF6c/nBqO/mn7HLXxwwTdxQQ= X-Received: by 2002:a67:f7c4:: with SMTP id a4mr9293715vsp.35.1632897530732; Tue, 28 Sep 2021 23:38:50 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a59:5706:0:b0:231:f367:1438 with HTTP; Tue, 28 Sep 2021 23:38:50 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> <97ebc390-a19e-3203-7016-ce541796eb18@beastielabs.net> From: grarpamp Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2021 02:38:50 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Cc: arch@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HK6Cb2bYDz4ZQw X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b="E6m29RH/"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of grarpamp@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::e2c as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=grarpamp@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.00 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20210112]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROMTLD(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(1.00)[1.000]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::e2c:from]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N The system shell really only need to support the language of the shipped scripts of the base tooling such as rc subsystem. If those were someday written in Greek, then the shell serves alone, the most common expectation of any "unix" to have there seems to be an "sh", from which users can further customize the box in whatever ways. Base's simplicity, perhaps that is in part why 14 would go with sh, and no longer litter the password file with any other shells, else base must really add and carry them all... zoor zsh toor tcsh coor csh qoor sql poor python boor bash goor go plus the entire rest of world of shellish thingies just to satisfy. Which is obviously untenable and absurd and causes futher legacies, maintenance, dependencies. Where does it stop, what is the limiting definition. Moving to just one, some type of an "sh", seems best to resolve the question. > The little help you get on the command line to search and repeat commands is very useful compared to plain "sh". That is in part why the sh UI appears to be getting some nice improvements as noted in the HEADSUP / thread. BSD users could contribute more to that effort, or run on the systems whichever shells are preferred. > change "Charlie &" in the gecos field to something more > sensible, e.g. just "Superuser" Seconded. It seems somewhat against good idea to have expandos in and downstream with a passwd file. This update can also help users minimize parsing and gotcha bugs by removing some possible escaping/AND/backgrounding interpretation problems, and reducing complexity and surface. There's actually been a good bit of stepwise cleaning and organization of the passwd/group file, and UID/GID to filesystem/daemons, etc over the years. It's good to view this as part of that effort as well. Another problem and lost opportunity cost and burnt cycles this update finally fixes is the decades worth of N times a year debate on this issue. It's a cumulative friction and waste of time. By selecting just one and sh, that goes away, and can move forward there now too :) > More bashism and linuxism in BSD world, > you are waking the devil. It was meant to say 'sh-like', bash is GPL so it shouldn't be in BSD base, the two shells just have some common than with *csh. Let the beastie daemon... and its more free copyright and unique approach to the "unix", its ongoing "pros" "innovatives" and much more that make bsd good... boil the waterparks of linux into vaporware ;) > Like https://github.com/shellspec/shellbench ? Interesting tool and data :)