From nobody Thu Sep 23 18:01:25 2021 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 730CF17C3B7D; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 18:01:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rollingbits@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qk1-x731.google.com (mail-qk1-x731.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::731]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HFjf03qZpz3k4S; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 18:01:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rollingbits@gmail.com) Received: by mail-qk1-x731.google.com with SMTP id 72so24770936qkk.7; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 11:01:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:cc :date:message-id:references:to; bh=FFaO0une2l5wlH+K6oia6gaBK27aXSSh2hCgUCY9/jU=; b=B8BvyEMFLB8kvkj6Ft7nXqSr1KRpccZB7z/i81zta6kgAJ2bBueK+9RKQ0yzOKFkDF 6B5SQ8aMcYkIExfeDLmN3aqn/O8ACQ2g9OZkzpM7aImE9zbb+38piwrEBsK4UiL9lzyG FEuMNjq8P16FXjgyOKfrfTgcrIAn+d7rSCTwXL0UgGpRKFsVdZJLB/0CaVCMvDNEfLbm h62qjdC1aZ3uexFSlRlZkI7B9NUkVJzoRb55EEzpeGUNMuuu3CcsTN18H56cIcbbzwmP a1Ql0lVh9yJeptCssO3D237z7igTRf5w3k2Kv4jGxnHghtdpZD7la3xzz/bOHa+s+QDK HsIA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject :from:in-reply-to:cc:date:message-id:references:to; bh=FFaO0une2l5wlH+K6oia6gaBK27aXSSh2hCgUCY9/jU=; b=XFVd7U8JBZN9HVIWsF2TygDP6Apv/9vzDu3vhGAQXwHU/66aduIqjr1Bx+I1azHnRo UhULynFUWB6CTowXxwZk1GqqmIBstp2sW0vfuvLzsX7TioxgFW2R1OTwoH19n2stbK0v Brkq9kHyZofkWJGXoaxRgJwbp1x0Bc+VCp1bYwZGwZsZiM71JquEuy3S0NZ1qduHjO8U PFV5Hz1Vshi7yO0wbdBTfFK4byYJCv5iUwAblCuJQTSlW5HqOdEZGF5xa0c7geQ5ApuJ aeg93QiNlKB7HNYuNSOCEA5LuY+/5dTok7i7hPTyQKtOLdPcoOql8C/5UFhg+T8K1xBV 690A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533SzbzodaCz/xNSB4kBQs8mXZTZD//RSS1SvZmc/WoUOJK4s2bw WU0jHr3ELbUvcqmllMXx/En97ZGEzcI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzcpEbiKkNkBHfgHpr9ep8C96QFHhUakoSLD9LtytikFCGKnXjNh2fjzFKYsLrQxt1hvhpojg== X-Received: by 2002:a37:a095:: with SMTP id j143mr6165465qke.277.1632420087817; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 11:01:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple ([2804:389:2015:52a1:9d3f:ddf6:615:be9d]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f13sm3920212qto.63.2021.09.23.11.01.27 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 23 Sep 2021 11:01:27 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-BF42553D-5B8F-4B87-AF9D-75DD8B359C1D Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root From: =?utf-8?Q?Lucas_Nali_de_Magalh=C3=A3es?= In-Reply-To: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> Cc: current@freebsd.org, arch@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 15:01:25 -0300 Message-Id: <577BC6B6-DA44-47FD-A70B-A30404968E4F@gmail.com> References: <20210922083645.4vnoajyvwq6wfhdf@aniel.nours.eu> To: Baptiste Daroussin X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (19A346) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HFjf03qZpz3k4S X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=B8BvyEMF; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of rollingbits@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::731 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=rollingbits@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.50 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20210112]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::731:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: Y --Apple-Mail-BF42553D-5B8F-4B87-AF9D-75DD8B359C1D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Sep 22, 2021, at 5:38 AM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!! (=E2=80=A6) I'm used to see FreeBSD remembered as a traditional OS full of professionali= sm and open to innovation. The front door for the BSD world and an OS that does= n't copy Linux. But more and more I'm seeing that BSD will need a new front door= soon, that this OS is becoming more and more another Linux, that professiona= lism is being left aside and that innovation is being undone and/or simply erased= . I wish I were about to write that it's the first time in a lot of time that I= see a problem being systematically recreated but this isn't true either. And I feel sad I'= m being getting used to this, too. Mark Millard found that LLVM multi-threaded linker is buggy on Armv7 and rep= orted it in another thread. I commented on it, even. It wasn't mention in that thr= ead that the numbers there shows another problem recreated that must be solved again. The= processes there were killed *before* virtual memory started to being heavily= used. This goes against the intended use of virtual memory. If virtual memory isn't use= d it's lost resource: a thing that must be removed from the system, optimized away. In t= hat specific case, virtual memory should have entered into place, being fully fi= lled and then the process will be killed. And just to be complete, the non-debuggability o= f LLVM were a known problem of LLVM by the time of the discussions that lead to it's imp= ort in the tree. --=20 rollingbits =E2=80=94 =F0=9F=93=A7 rollingbits@icloud.com =F0=9F=93=A7 rolli= ngbits@gmail.com =F0=9F=93=A7 rollingbits@yahoo.com