From nobody Thu Sep 23 17:21:50 2021 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC7C4175E3C7 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 17:21:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (static-24-113-41-81.wavecable.com [24.113.41.81]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "ultimatedns.net", Issuer "R3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HFhmQ3WBcz3NRW for ; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 17:21:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Received: from ultimatedns.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by udns.ultimatedns.net (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTP id 18NHLpZH036346; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 10:21:57 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 10:21:50 -0700 From: Chris To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: "Rolf M. Dietze" , freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root In-Reply-To: <202109231640.18NGeow0054727@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> References: <202109231640.18NGeow0054727@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> User-Agent: UDNSMS/17.0 Message-ID: <74693bebbd80eedd82d786dccbbb73fa@bsdforge.com> X-Sender: bsd-lists@bsdforge.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_e822c22c540dc7276bc8095e06a9a5a8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HFhmQ3WBcz3NRW X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N --=_e822c22c540dc7276bc8095e06a9a5a8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On 2021-09-23 09:40, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: >> >> Quoting Miroslav Lachman <000.fbsd@quip.cz>: >> >> > On 22/09/2021 22:50, grarpamp wrote: >> >>> propose to make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE ... >> >> Whoever wants is free to add other users with root pemissions is free >> to do so. > > That is a zero sum argument. Ie, same can be said about those who > wish to have the current default changed. Changing that default is > actually going to require NEW special casing of any code that expects > the now 30+ year default. Those who DO like it changed, have already > made changes to have it changed, so changing the default only adds > to work for both parties, to me a net loss. ____________________________^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I'm well inclined to agree here. But my past expressions of such have been largely been ignored. In *this* case; it's not a big affect for me; as I roll out all my updates from build farms. So all my users are already predefined, and their dot files are preserved. But still, more changes == more work. :-( Out of curiosity; has anyone actually done a real assessment to determine the *actual* value of this (proposed) change? I mean in the end, do we really know the cost to loss ratio? --Chris > > Leave the defaults alone, provide tools and such to make it easier > for people to tweak those defaults on install. Stop adding work > to both the people who like how it is now, and people who like > the idea of this change, its not productive for anyone. > > >> Rolf M Dietze --=_e822c22c540dc7276bc8095e06a9a5a8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name=0xBDE49540.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=0xBDE49540.asc; size=5028 -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- mQENBGDTzGEBCADHlXdS4V57s2soaEK2wi3o9rr9zo7to/giBSxCpFYJxOnPkL5A 2ibbvflrL8sWvAczx47wgDS7iIhzICBBRdnXtcFGnoeeriV27LSn+PcpnIB+DaWZ xe+6TDC0Z0JUJ7qDTjUBFzhnQGYlrVvc4WbnWTjJaB1LEwgIX8JqX5S3SX0/oXgs +OtqDuENZ4/a5te5xPnspTv/5NJHjqYGxjHP0Vw0KjRKS1AoJ1SBPSMQV5373AX9 5NzFS+CjqeQhjfHFPeRajQ8t4T6eqhKA7LtKMO1egeAwNehk9ZoEqEBT2+ojuKUd oSuzqvhhx+eUIYLFqoPSzMKR+YbStzergsbnABEBAAG0KUNocmlzIEh1dGNoaW5z b24gPGNocmlzaEB1bHRpbWF0ZWRucy5uZXQ+iQFrBBABCABVBgsJBwgDAgQVCAoC AxYCAQIZAQIbAwIeARgYaGtwczovL2tleXMub3BlbnBncC5vcmcWIQQGJAsyyBlk cuwsSYsYdR58veSVQAUCYNQl+wUJA8LAmgAKCRAYdR58veSVQN3NB/sFTeXrZeDk ml/dshET8QbkOPgXlnibk8+Mauf+y9LjS9WT7R8EmqhK7T7aw115JQ1RWTM6kpQM jyDBjYF7piJEpNKI9YDeSnODKir1fWQqm9+wd68wAKGvV4m8kg9uOHCvXG4J++MG zDFH+PuGVxKirFnaz46DpS0Zw7wTtjNiNFvCooYov3IeYGfqcchd3hwBuXgWLexZ vI8JW7lL9oXl7B/wcbSxg9rwy6/QLYGg6sEtYRcFYyvQWefSMJaLWjU/pZN2iSxM lXm55iZv1BXHupfeD1ldRiGs6ejrcpa8+U1ju291WbLzcIsU8IDljeW9/WB2dLFT hJmY1wRk158AtB5DaHJpcyA8YnNkLWxpc3RzQGJzZGZvcmdlLmNvbT6JAWgEEAEI AFIGCwkHCAMCBBUICgIDFgIBAhsDAh4BGBhoa3BzOi8va2V5cy5vcGVucGdwLm9y ZxYhBAYkCzLIGWRy7CxJixh1Hny95JVABQJg1CX7BQkDwsCaAAoJEBh1Hny95JVA aI0H/AlJAOfc5TcMKa479Itw31mwccKb+u0DPN9Gkm/RfWIBjeqqozxCM8G8jVFr dt/J6KmBO3dQtRZHlXdD57RAfDDl5Vm3uws0s+UIFOxMiua/YxyuDcKLsE8Bjkzx z+vuJ8f6cg4WlygPr3bo3l81AOuU/wOsTrNkQvVJxgATlooATSVxs0yNn2uoso9f nhMGUYsmT4c35JYh0k6Lq7Z2LS+ELipMTQ7M7iCWSP1O/zSEvPD4NBo52xCvjLka KcL4fRl7UN+6ouwGr5aUn83tztE/IR0AK45gFvL5yxI4g/zm1t3j2+hhhW1pBU8w uQWkD2DyLTWy7xs1uVF5m1ojHp60H0NocmlzIDxrbm90QHRhY29tYXdpcmVsZXNz Lm5ldD6JAWgEEAEIAFIGCwkHCAMCBBUICgIDFgIBAhsDAh4BGBhoa3BzOi8va2V5 cy5vcGVucGdwLm9yZxYhBAYkCzLIGWRy7CxJixh1Hny95JVABQJg1CX7BQkDwsCa AAoJEBh1Hny95JVA5m8H/iENaTD4j5QHfaHfiDIdxGx36GnETyRK0vAzr2b6pzG+ 7VHNCm4ZfuMsXDJ1ZD8fjTipvg0f4w31xCQI0NgNdAqudBqE075Jwcr9pE9j8VN1 Nvejto01cgLHODbLPhokrkFz1K023VjCdy5RaVuCZ6ajTif7Kq+BEOE8TumYx4ly zdhnh/9ICohqfVvEMh347wI36D7HuezHB773hOsHdqTy9T+0Qu0Vu+wud45MUy1f vRF11OkJFtKL0bh4yMSGVY1xte1Mt/qC6rd43TDtAW3ekw1o/exh764kp7XXQsmP wwe4Y040PZafcygJlEW9bBtjjxKnzDTvqeb5dMi6d7a0GENocmlzIDxvaWRldkBz dW5vcy5pbmZvPokBaAQQAQgAUgYLCQcIAwIEFQgKAgMWAgECGwMCHgEYGGhrcHM6 Ly9rZXlzLm9wZW5wZ3Aub3JnFiEEBiQLMsgZZHLsLEmLGHUefL3klUAFAmDUJfsF CQPCwJoACgkQGHUefL3klUB74wf8DSvT36bYZp7oqZ+35HNhTekJ2dbTzUhauF0S +Z9R1AGnNnINgua75CyQGdNCIgcZxo4qG9sePl7SllQ9i0qhmiw0mzmvky8bAZQV V/2Coc1C/81b+PI19VczYrbZC20jApsnbAIkKZgSh9XQoiLd3meY7G2lX2k6CXYL xSeBEh+N3BU8vLxExm82U71Qzm43u0kA1TlbTSqpBvg/tfAzTCsYQLSlB6b4ZL2W D6U7b7ZYF5oZNonVNWSHxpjUN3Evkta9xWS2+cgYQdlP1/ku5w5ZWwzmYG7awh0J /YuSNIp6Ks6D/PSBduu6XbH+FJHaXmq+ZCKpNBh5EKH+GhOfq7QfQ2hyaXMgPHBv cnRtYXN0ZXJAYnNkZm9yZ2UuY29tPokBaAQQAQgAUgYLCQcIAwIEFQgKAgMWAgEC GwMCHgEYGGhrcHM6Ly9rZXlzLm9wZW5wZ3Aub3JnFiEEBiQLMsgZZHLsLEmLGHUe fL3klUAFAmDUJfwFCQPCwJoACgkQGHUefL3klUC3GggAo4Y+hslaoV7Namp7qWYZ Vei4ZwPfsYW7/HtmFORSGV8C8xR+LSkwzN1Hc7Qxvwv+DXuk7Hzd1Ag/xe8XhbNG /NMrXENY/8ym9TRbxtrBIhQyhkyShSUT+N+g16GRNZKuNL2MOIHc/RCS/YyyaTtu TzIxFbP7Gb2LO1LiiZsFVOGirHfxyiww7CAm3HXY2K4smOiKs6swZMpStVy3dd6A BcB1LPGs3ywDglFfKCRbVmjsPgsi61r4kUBVO6ML7lAmPDXLXOa+7iAtBN479QxC MVeH3Y3SMrvu61Vyf1xL79rIznU3u8C34zfxqsoIV0zCZe2YDLbFfLhZYqatYYEo e7QjImNocmlzLmgiIDxjaHJpcy5oQHVsdGltYXRlZG5zLm5ldD6JAWgEEAEIAFIG CwkHCAMCBBUICgIDFgIBAhsDAh4BGBhoa3BzOi8va2V5cy5vcGVucGdwLm9yZxYh BAYkCzLIGWRy7CxJixh1Hny95JVABQJg1CX8BQkDwsCaAAoJEBh1Hny95JVAkUEH /jkzYrRh7muqoebwEgVeULzPbAs/nYJm9SMME2ypB2FS8kusO7lE+33UJO7PhHkJ 0nJ+tPfP8UV+fCzVjKjabzpvUGuiMWKRZEK9xNoxwi/epOrRw87msHA2LPqEob+F sVh09Nc58s75koUgSYp5h0FjsLK0+fwsQ6PtTfpY5W6JJVJRQnMwGKk5czrukBSM 79kJvphgul2xuzqo5K7rM98dL75AwCJmJZnbyXpUJIhtY/G01nURupBiQGgNixYs Zeo6OR669TFrMRWxueXtlHD0WaX7JNSlR5uyzpVaDCH0Kxa6ozmZtD+a6dAXg630 zbLGHg51JIm38Uvi1i47Jaa0KCJILlIuIENvbW11bmljYXRpb25zIiA8ZG5zQGRu c3dhdGNoLmNvbT6JAWgEEAEIAFIGCwkHCAMCBBUICgIDFgIBAhsDAh4BGBhoa3Bz Oi8va2V5cy5vcGVucGdwLm9yZxYhBAYkCzLIGWRy7CxJixh1Hny95JVABQJg1CX8 BQkDwsCaAAoJEBh1Hny95JVAABoH/iOWA+9BKxLIAIFgW2nxTFDrGvbxXL/mVSFt SOInKX8UqqfLCcikfpWLsj2D7mg5rKFMCu+31UYYlnrXl4YY1qruq0vh41L72qNy yHYol+xW4BSbZXf2q2ph7+lnPsFoodw7acVun5F8M8NH0roo5AOSbgRlK69ZFIcq fDEJdtk4oul7pqGArdeTCCdrSaeR3zrRN8P0PDOkGKSdlpeOE6XHnbbmAPZIhr/9 KsSpX1BGyipda3k5kOB4TsGVo+cRJMkK+GMpsZ+lJ7ZzRbjHbC+b52TiAIjMtXCK 3A3LrDUeMoJwvRKoO1tzquF6HqHJSg0ArZOvAB3BHlwUyUtA/o25AQ0EYNPMYQEI ANFpucNRdYEOubTNluoK97N9JmDb0WRXPPow+3XfBom6ZBSrWqNBgqDbjxSsLB00 QXbA8EB5W/Oolp/0epwEtgNAxyKVPowE/un+rY1PqvGjeAR4gBhY9Za1Lg1Q3vnR /WzsY7RIQCqhWUbfdGn1u6r/EgTBVrwUp4U/3ggfSz/PcUt4pUhlgxfYvjSjOgEZ wbqaQIwWud11FKMARNAUJzvJL/fDGeKLMvgRUwynIDGzCq7e67hhEEo5jwkZ0gEl 8RxXHKFuYkbb/q7rpdifXYYT6QCFlEZhiRbtH5Us7kgKuRD2XUFEQnN4U/rxuydH 4XOP6iOhiZfYnK/y9HBeRCMAEQEAAYkBPAQYAQgAJgIbDBYhBAYkCzLIGWRy7CxJ ixh1Hny95JVABQJg1CYkBQkDwsDDAAoJEBh1Hny95JVApBsH/iEg2ANRkHByfXB+ sH3PMf2Jsg5NSuj8OiNeKKGGIKCJkSAPjtv5rvKLNcvIcTR5Vnhr0e6AteFcK2te iFWDmj0QuFoQNvIOHQ3nHBPSpai2Ubq12nvYfg4bYK28AMi4xPMssgQ8awFgAI2V k9okq5XwC0Cc1MGhupEWYYSaFLIDQvFvRRSw1Lyc/W3SKa4d2dgesIPnB/rdv0Zq u8ftsSmurKxA2hQeNIcn06Ew7AbWUIjFX/bDXJlg/3Sj/spU2ur23TmaADBKhT5P DvfdaFTkk0SBfpN1j2S0DNXBHSrWvRp15zZmU4hwELiUY/H2/j/XpOGV3Q0i2iob 1hJ30C8= =aMQi -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --=_e822c22c540dc7276bc8095e06a9a5a8--