From nobody Thu Sep 23 16:47:51 2021 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0C75175940A; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 16:47:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net) Received: from gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (br1.CN84in.dnsmgr.net [69.59.192.140]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HFh193Qq7z3HfK; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 16:47:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net) Received: from gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id 18NGlqBA054761; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 09:47:52 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net) Received: (from freebsd-rwg@localhost) by gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id 18NGlpxQ054760; Thu, 23 Sep 2021 09:47:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <202109231647.18NGlpxQ054760@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] making /bin/sh the default shell for root In-Reply-To: <97ebc390-a19e-3203-7016-ce541796eb18@beastielabs.net> To: Hans Ottevanger Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 09:47:51 -0700 (PDT) CC: Baptiste Daroussin , current@FreeBSD.org, arch@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL121h (25)] List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HFh193Qq7z3HfK X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N > On 9/22/21 10:36 AM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: > > Hello, > > > > TL;DR: this is not a proposal to deorbit csh from base!!! > > > > For years now, csh is the default root shell for FreeBSD, csh can be confusing > > as a default shell for many as all other unix like settled on a bourne shell > > compatible interactive shell: zsh, bash, or variant of ksh. > > > > Recently our sh(1) has receive update to make it more user friendly in > > interactive mode: > > * command completion (thanks pstef@) > > * improvement in the emacs mode, to make it behave by default like other shells > > * improvement in the vi mode (in particular the vi edit to respect $EDITOR) > > * support for history as described by POSIX. > > > > This makes it a usable shell by default, which is why I would like to propose to > > make it the default shell for root starting FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE (not MFCed) > > > > If no strong arguments has been raised until October 15th, I will make this > > proposal happen. > > > > Again just in case: THIS IS NOT A PROPOSAL TO REMOVE CSH FROM BASE! > > > > Best regards, > > Baptiste > > > > Hello, > > I applaud the proposal to change the default login shell of root to > /bin/sh. As you mention the rest of the Unix(-like) world has used a > Bourne-like root login shell forever. It is one of the first things I > change on a new FreeBSD install anyway. So now you stop changing it, something you have grown use to doing, and all of us who want the old behavior have to add a change item to our list of post install stuff. We BOTH end up with version conditional tweaks to the base system. Is that a good idea? > While there, you could change "Charlie &" in the gecos field to > something more sensible, e.g. just "Superuser". I know Charlie is there > since 4.2BSD, but the reference to a long forgotten baseball player is > probably lost by now. Also, a lot of explanation is often needed when > users receive (automated) emails from Charlie Root. > > Once the login shell of root has changed to /bin/sh, I do not see any > reason to keep toor around. It is there since 4.3BSD, but I don't know > anybody who uses it in the long term. Many will just change the login > shell of root to a Bourne-like shell right away. Your lack of knowing anyone who uses it, does not indicate lack of use. If I want a /bin/sh root user I type: su - toor So now you know someone who uses it! > > I have experimented a bit with the new usability features of sh in 14.0 > and I must say that it was quite a positive experience. I could easily > suppress the urge to install and use bash instead of sh. I wonder if the > changes (but not the ones to /etc/passwd) could be MFC'd in a few > months, once they have matured a bit, so they would land in 13.1. As you > mention elsewhere in this thread, usage in scripts is not affected by > these changes. And for interactive use it could be a POLA violation, but > the astonishment would be a positive one. > > -- > Kind regards, > > Hans Ottevanger > > Eindhoven, Netherlands. > hans@beastielabs.net > www.beastielabs.net > > -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@freebsd.org