From nobody Thu Dec 16 16:30:41 2021 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EC0918E419B for ; Thu, 16 Dec 2021 16:30:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-ua1-x933.google.com (mail-ua1-x933.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::933]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1D4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4JFHfj3rc9z3ktn for ; Thu, 16 Dec 2021 16:30:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-ua1-x933.google.com with SMTP id y23so6388808uay.7 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 2021 08:30:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=lK75aiEDTzo5PsirePbFTQ2E0OiLtYZfMRqZiVl69J0=; b=csLZEYgjYdqqOjXGxGR/SDZxAxrTkHMAV4CU9DjEN+HHS6T1IxiZc23Tm0kobUixTe 3GtrfZ2M/+zJIvi9TJ++BAWNeYESG0A8zgHRsGCdhmuRYPbl5E8Dh2bU9wfA5A2iKfhW h7khtwtDeMRZ/xRrA4tz8eHGhJF4DnJW2nYTrspcZ0s0GxrVibDJ5rUeL2CEanBtnHWU TFJxLggen+3c/uD28TpCPPUZO7Zqxrptdm/DCg7EPvKRRkfy8Q3Uq5iLOrfEx9HtjRqD a/zxAyGMNkkRisu7KUG4wRsu15C7nSsUjNwnVSp4roPhwL44XpI4Bn8PZbR5vQX2c2UZ C30w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=lK75aiEDTzo5PsirePbFTQ2E0OiLtYZfMRqZiVl69J0=; b=WO24/pHol1z9QgFHVG7v4yM1L7YtAFSjJKbd8tBrxSalrg2HDa8zgZYrKG5i+tIMVz Tf4BIAkmTiLLgy5xNJdkFhDLqki1LhayBmzFXQi8cY3EJCQCXctv2SZzC4ugt8Hed/Nq IbVX1NvCDP+c4qQpoiPOLPASE9UddXufpJ89zxpAxpY6ufzXspH6O0pYsB0kH47p06ii 9efy2TKE5mwdZjPFVS3Uat49BjRZq0sLDk8iu3a52wmry7nsSgSNpFqPKZ6wRin3sIpJ kJkrapAvJfWMk+WOei12yzHb5Oo2+lfKdE+L2muef6R1M184yfoT2jk0u7Y6qD/55bny uGqA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530ct6KphaWzNf5wSRS7+AYuc5j5mJoBGvrOHblzF92ytzPd1+ZZ aO8Qk44PdIcnbj0ApZUFr5j4w9XLuoV+nt/ybGbCDluzjF2rNA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx4Dw3ad0m9ELcHXxgYOy46k9DsqBvuScKjGBLOtWI8nYoDg75oajLIIQZj7+EVGYIj6BdRyOMnKZPiXh146F4= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6102:ec2:: with SMTP id m2mr292028vst.6.1639672252893; Thu, 16 Dec 2021 08:30:52 -0800 (PST) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20211215162538.99d8d81650af56e2276f2f88@bidouilliste.com> <20211215175202.e1d101079a9c22c9094577f3@bidouilliste.com> <20211216101733.7b7bfa569aca496b22ef0324@bidouilliste.com> <20211216161337.1fa53758e61eaeb37b8b24d0@bidouilliste.com> In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2021 09:30:41 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Any Cronyx Tau* (ce(4) or cp(4)) users ? To: Gleb Smirnoff Cc: Emmanuel Vadot , Ed Maste , FreeBSD Current Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000002e9e1705d345f2f2" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4JFHfj3rc9z3ktn X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N --0000000000002e9e1705d345f2f2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Thu, Dec 16, 2021 at 8:54 AM Gleb Smirnoff wrote: > Emmanuel, > > look at this communication: > > E> And we're doing that just because the drivers compiles ? > G> We are doing that because the hardware is still produced ... > E> ... a lot of obsolete hardware that we've removed are still produced ... > G> I'd be interested to see at least one example ... > E> This was an hypothetical situation. > > I don't know what to reply here. :( > The standards that Brooks, Ed and I have been using in retiring drivers has been "Still relevant to FreeBSD". Although whether or not something was still in production is an input into that, it's not the only factor in decisions made. While that standard is a bit vague, I'm struggling understanding the case for these drivers still being relevant to FreeBSD in the absence of documented actual use, let alone a use case that we can do a cost-benefit analysis on. Warner --0000000000002e9e1705d345f2f2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Thu, Dec 16, 2021 at 8:54 AM Gleb = Smirnoff <glebius@freebsd.org= > wrote:
=C2= =A0 Emmanuel,

look at this communication:

E> And we're doing that just because the drivers compiles ?
G> We are doing that because the hardware is still produced ...
E> ... a lot of obsolete hardware that we've removed are still produ= ced ...
G> I'd be interested to see at least one example ...
E> This was an hypothetical situation.

I don't know what to reply here. :(

The standards that Brooks, Ed and I have been using in retiring drivers ha= s been
"Still relevant to FreeBSD". Although whether or= not something was still in production
is an input into that, it&= #39;s not the only factor in decisions made.

While= that standard is a bit vague, I'm struggling understanding the case fo= r these
drivers still being relevant to FreeBSD in the absence of= documented actual use,
let alone a use case that we can do a cos= t-benefit analysis on.

Warner
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