Re: Deprecation of i386 and 32-bit powerpc for 15.0

> On Sat, 21 Jun 2025 08:36:28 +0900
> Tomoaki AOKI <junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp> wrote:
> 
> > On Sat, 21 Jun 2025 01:15:58 +0300
> > Vadim Goncharov <vadimnuclight@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > On Sat, 21 Jun 2025 04:09:29 +0900
> > > Tomoaki AOKI <junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp> wrote:
> > >   
> > > > > > > - ~6 months after branching (BSDCan 2026 devsummit):
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >    - evaluate how stable/14 has been fairing (are MFCs breaking
> > > > > > >      deprecated platforms) (note that stable/13 will be EOL at this
> > > > > > >      point)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >      - if all is smooth, start removing code from main for i386 and
> > > > > > >        powerpc kernels as well as any powerpc userspace code not
> > > > > > >        required for lib32    
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > When can we expect lib32 removal?    
> > > > > Hopefully never.    
> > > > 
> > > > Maybe this could puzzle more persons.
> > > > 
> > > > IIUC, lib32 is for running 32bit apps on 64bit platform, which is NOT
> > > > planned for removal.
> > > > 
> > > > What is going to be deprecated is 32bit bare-metal hardwares supports
> > > > for i386 and 32bit PowerPC, which never runs on 64bit modes.  
> > > 
> > > Does that mean that support for 32-bit builds for virtual machines (that's
> > > important because they use less memory -> buy cheaper, especially when
> > > lots of them) will be continued after 2030 ?  
> > 
> > My understanding is, unfortunately, yes.
> > IIUC, VM images are "pre-installed" environment with virtual disk
> > format that the VM recognizes and pre-installed, if any, drivers to
> > support emulated virtual hardwares.
> > 
> > You can still use 32bit binaries on 64bit builds of VMs, but
> > it would require lib32 to be installed.
> > 
> > Correct me if I'm misunderstanding.
>  
> If "yes" then why "unfortunately" ? Continuing to support 32 bits where it
> makes sense is very fortunate thing, both for cheaper prices and energy saving
> thus our planet!

IMHO, it is a mistake for FreeBSD to remove the 32 bit bare metal build
before Intel/AMD removes this support from the bare metal.  As long as
shipping CPU chips from both AMD and Intel support 32 bit bare metal
boots, and VM's it makes since for this feature to be availiable.

As one person here has pointed out the savings in VM sizes alone
is valuable.

Also some one explain where the build of 32bit binaries would come from
if the 32bit build of FreeBSD goes away?  That has me rather confused,
other than possibly to run legacy things, but that interface is likely
to get broken quickly once the 32 bit builds are gone.

Or is it expected that we can continue to build a 32 bit user land
from /usr/src and run that on the 64 bit kernel and that this shall
be a fully supported configuration?

-- 
Rod Grimes                                                 rgrimes@freebsd.org