Re: Deprecation of i386 and 32-bit powerpc for 15.0

In message <CAM5tNy5LfZAkppW+p4wX6YATt55ao_2_O4JrdJf=c0VU6N9K1w@mail.gmail.c
om>
, Rick Macklem writes:
> On Sat, Jun 21, 2025 at 7:54=E2=80=AFAM Tomoaki AOKI <junchoon@dec.sakura.n=
> e.jp> wrote:
> >
> > On Sat, 21 Jun 2025 16:48:10 +0300
> > Vadim Goncharov <vadimnuclight@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Sat, 21 Jun 2025 02:58:59 +0000
> > > Colin Percival <cperciva@tarsnap.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On 6/20/25 15:15, Vadim Goncharov wrote:
> > > > > On Sat, 21 Jun 2025 04:09:29 +0900
> > > > > Tomoaki AOKI <junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >>>>> - ~6 months after branching (BSDCan 2026 devsummit):
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>     - evaluate how stable/14 has been fairing (are MFCs breakin=
> g
> > > > >>>>>       deprecated platforms) (note that stable/13 will be EOL at=
>  this
> > > > >>>>>       point)
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>       - if all is smooth, start removing code from main for i38=
> 6 and
> > > > >>>>>         powerpc kernels as well as any powerpc userspace code n=
> ot
> > > > >>>>>         required for lib32
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> When can we expect lib32 removal?
> > > > >>> Hopefully never.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Maybe this could puzzle more persons.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> IIUC, lib32 is for running 32bit apps on 64bit platform, which is =
> NOT
> > > > >> planned for removal.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> What is going to be deprecated is 32bit bare-metal hardwares suppo=
> rts
> > > > >> for i386 and 32bit PowerPC, which never runs on 64bit modes.
> > > > >
> > > > > Does that mean that support for 32-bit builds for virtual machines =
> (that's
> > > > > important because they use less memory -> buy cheaper, especially w=
> hen
> > > > > lots of them) will be continued after 2030 ?
> > > >
> > > > If by "virtual machine" you mean bhyve/qemu/KVM/virtualbox/etc then n=
> o, that
> > > > will not be possible in 15.x and later because a full virtual machine=
>  needs
> > > > to run a FreeBSD kernel, and there will be no FreeBSD/i386 kernel for=
>  15.x
> > > > and later.
> > > >
> > > > If by "virtual machine" you mean containers, that will still be possi=
> ble.
> > >
> > > Of course I mean real virtual machine e.g. running in a cloud. The same=
>  code
> > > compiled for 32 bits consumes less memory than for 64 bits (int and ptr=
>  size).
> > > So for 100 VMs in a cloud 1 GB RAM each vs 100 VMs in a cloud 2 GB RAM =
> you
> > > have a significant cost difference (lib32 is only partial solution here=
> , as
> > > you also have system daemons and kernel).
> >
> > So you really need to look for anyone (maybe multiple) who promises
> > to maintain i386 part of src tree continuously AND really want to be (a)
> > committer(s) of FreeBSD src repo, which (AFAIK) FreeBSD project cannot
> > find (thus, deprecated).
> Just a data point here. I downloaded/installed a snapshot on my ancient
> i386 laptop and it went without a hitch (I didn't try to set up X or a desk=
> top).
> Why?
> Because I knew to avoid ZFS.
>
> There was a recent discussion about broken MBR ZFS installs for 14.n
> and I'm not sure how that got resolved.
> My point is..fixing that wasn't in anyone's wheelhouse, so who's going to
> fix other things?
>
> I suspect that most of what is in ports still builds because Debian still
> does 32bit distros. When they stop doing that, I suspect 32bit builds
> of port stuff will bitrot rapidly?
>
> Although I still have the old hardware, I don't have a problem with
> John's schedule (although I think it might be nice to still build snapshots
> until the FreeBSD15 release is done). That would give anyone who wants
> it an unsupported install, given this is only a few months away?

I have no problem with the schedule either. I have one i386 machine, a 
laptop, left. And it hasn't been booted in a year or more. My i386 
partitions have been removed. Only one i386 jail remains and that is to 
support any ports or userland that remains -- though want to remove it 
sooner than later. I generally stopped considering 32-bit a couple of years 
ago.


-- 
Cheers,
Cy Schubert <Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com>
FreeBSD UNIX:  <cy@FreeBSD.org>   Web:  https://FreeBSD.org
NTP:           <cy@nwtime.org>    Web:  https://nwtime.org

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