Re: freebsd-update and pkgbase

On 20/08/2025 00:15, Vadim Goncharov wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Aug 2025 12:02:20 -0400
> Mark Johnston <markj@freebsd.org> wrote:
> 
>> Adding freebsd-arch@ and re@ to see if anyone not on -pkgbase has
>> opinions here.
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 06, 2025 at 05:17:19PM -0400, Mark Johnston wrote:
>>> The future of freebsd-update post 15.0 isn't totally clear.  There have
>>> been proposals to remove it in 15.0.  IMO we can't remove it outright,
>>> since may be needed in order to upgrade 13.x and 14.x jails on a 15.0
>>> host.  It is also a shame to lose a simple upgrade utility that is
>>> well-documented and that many users are familiar with; compare
>>> "freebsd-update upgrade -r 14.3-RELEASE" with the upgrade instructions
>>> on the pkgbase wiki page.
>>>
>>> pkgbase offers a lot of flexibility but I suspect many users don't need
>>> it; they need a one-shot "upgrade my system, please" utility that will
>>> automatically create a boot environment, configure pkg repositories as
>>> needed for major/minor/security upgrades, fetch packages, and handle
>>> package installation order (i.e., kernel first, followed by a reboot).
> 
> Of course. As was said earlier, the whole pkgbase idea in it's current form is
> harmful, leading to unexpected breakages etc. after mass deployment, not
> mentioning not very good quality of pkg itself.
> 
> The whole distinction between base and ports (packages) is (was) major FreeBSD
> strength, compared to Linux distros or just plain "zfs delete /usr/local" if
> something goes wrong.
> 
> May be freebsd-update will be redone to be just a frontend to pkg, may be
> some other way, but the whole wall between base and ports must continue to
> exist.
> I think it probably should be even special fork of pkg(8) for pkgbase, just as
> private (renamed) versions of some ports libraries exist in the base (like
> sqlite or expat). One of reasons for this is different pace of development of
> pkg and base support policy for several years - ports have no more than 3
> months and can afford breakages of pkg itself.

Cannot agree more. I and some other users expect one tool for packages 
from ports and another tool (command) for updating the base system. 
After 25 years with FreeBSD, I really don't want to end up in a 
situation where "pkg upgrade" updates both packages from ports and the 
base system.
I can run pkg install / pkg upgrade / pkg delete at any time on any 
package with a clear conscience, knowing that I won't break the base 
system, cut out myself SSH access, etc.
If this barrier is broken, then we end up somewhere I don't want to be.

Kind regards
Miroslav Lachman