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[209.85.128.177]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e129-20020a0dc287000000b00545a08184f8sm3339191ywd.136.2023.05.23.18.56.40 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 23 May 2023 18:56:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yw1-f177.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-5617d793160so5757677b3.2 for ; Tue, 23 May 2023 18:56:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a0d:d9d3:0:b0:55a:98ff:f07e with SMTP id b202-20020a0dd9d3000000b0055a98fff07emr17292388ywe.16.1684893400329; Tue, 23 May 2023 18:56:40 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-arch List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <5a08b091-a1a5-1928-18e1-16c3bddb1a7f@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <5a08b091-a1a5-1928-18e1-16c3bddb1a7f@FreeBSD.org> From: Tomek CEDRO Date: Wed, 24 May 2023 03:56:27 +0200 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: Future of 32-bit platforms (including i386) To: freebsd-arch Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4QQvSB17kxz3G0N X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On Wed, May 24, 2023 at 1:47=E2=80=AFAM John Baldwin wrote: > On 4/27/23 10:19 AM, John Baldwin wrote: > > For 13.0, i386 was demoted from Tier 1 to Tier 2. In the announcement > > of this for 13.0, the project committed to an update on i386's future > > around the time of 14.0. The announcement at the time suggested that > > i386 would be supported less in 14.x than in 13.x. > > > > My proposal is that for 14.x we treat i386 like any other Tier 2 > > platform. That is, release images and packages would only be provided > > on a best-effort basis, and we would not guarantee providing them. I > > think we should also stop shipping binary updates for the base system > > (freebsd-update) for 14.x for i386. > > > > A larger question is what to do about 32-bit platforms moving forward. > > My proposal for powerpc, i386, and armv[67] is that we say publicly > > that we anticipate not supporting them in 15. That is, that we may > > remove them outright from the tree, or we may leave them in the tree, > > but we do not plan on building packages or release images. Another > > option to consider for 32-bit platforms perhaps in 15 is to remove > > kernel support and only retain the ability to build userland. The > > goal of saying this now-ish (or about the time 14.0 is going to ship) > > would be to give time for users and developers to respond in the > > window between 14.0 and 15.0 so we can evaluate those responses as an > > input into the final decision for 15. > > We discussed this topic during the 15.0 developer summit and the consensu= s > among the folks present (which is only a subset of our community), is > that there is still interest in supporting armv7 kernels in 15.0, but not > kernels for other platforms. In addition, no one expressed a need for > full 32-bit world support for i386 and powerpc, only for compat32 support > in the kernel, and lib32 (cc -m32) support in userland. > > One question for this is if we think we will have sufficient developer > resources to maintain armv7 kernels for the life of stable/15. We can > largely punt on the final decision for that until close to the release of > 15.0. I think for what we announce for 14.0 we can still say that we > are generally planning to remove 32-bit kernel and world support in 15.0, > but may consider keeping armv7. I always think in terms of "Zombie Apocalypse"^TM on what to get myself into.. if its not going to work in that kind of situation then its not worth the time :-) :-) Will "lack of support" mean no binaries provided or removal of the source code so FreeBSD is non-existent anymore on those platforms? --=20 CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info