From nobody Wed May 07 16:38:35 2025 X-Original-To: dev-commits-src-main@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4Zt1DL0C3mz5wSnD; Wed, 07 May 2025 16:38:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olce@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R11" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Zt1DK6cyqz3L88; Wed, 07 May 2025 16:38:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olce@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1746635921; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=Mhn3EP9dq/afKUhAVpuGb6qK92qy21cecY6ltPL9RSI=; b=G6tav+urRUrlWtCrz8gE0n1sIIEJl3Jjr683QBA1yrbijVyu7VrPt3rs4N2g1M2hzkryF7 cMOskcDfLAUqbeiKMU0uwSbrCYfVjksDO321istxFyo7p0QaIC76GJZgv2/3hPMpqNJziE JVw2i0XqxbGSFqygjN0ozWSXBoWzoS9zJ8glrh0zNQearD9GtVdOKUclimIFQgzq6HgsAR T7vn9ZDTT+C3SaGVdXbi9KzYh6eJ0K4/ZTWvq+N4/JQeZX+DxJkq3lMlryiKRQXfQVsxKh EqUjZ3tF6/vqBFkOWw8NnpSJW6McexRiMqfWqnACQPH6U2cDv0zunCaUTMYu3Q== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1746635921; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=Mhn3EP9dq/afKUhAVpuGb6qK92qy21cecY6ltPL9RSI=; b=xCH058wFFRJJ/fdX2BO4anAnWW3of/7oVd0BMc7bNiMWe/rJocWb08Ndu2pNHpUh/NDMNP LniqdyBHp2gRTBFySb015UFIuy1qZ/C60c3QUUdknbGJ3bbsk/7Lhyb9HIy0vexWAXoXyj UMQ8YWYg4WqKWvYqD3HqGUadSQy7Ts9eLlHrAqM156YcnA8h+JKUJ5252fezdnUAmoa0Rq DAg4FMc+oEgOx2lbv6gIoyVvYcR+J0ryOmPnJ3jbG3YDHYlaBdSX53sn6kDvlYa7r+JAtw hxvl0sw+WN3Grh8fOFirWPtiQIBgaqN3GyNNEzgKRc/Yp7hb9RhyBdXU8amtQw== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1746635921; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=Jqs9L6/z5Xlzx8RMDIorR8IiQk5bbKnBMnI3ddKCGh3jWxQRl5jiu+uFC3Ew0wvbHJBjx/ 5y0VcYQEdVKTXnXGX47+r/fBQUCj0wn5n5EBknm0jJInQ1BYUPMgH/6nlSI3ifCZc/5Gf8 F4lrJamuzU0nDjOzb1NouoVzBpIHwdKnZSw2Vsl+PM5MWo9ktsbMjLHA7sRbl6f8RWaOvx l5FpmdNz8XfXcRrz/uuJAKrCClKj4unhRnxTkBX/KvUWt1Wqn4S32J5rrZP9DavvOgEs4f ipuoE6NsXrZw8riOZAlFgqgkO+S7g9gshF6KDov/hnTWh5PzkJ4y7eTh/cEAQw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from ravel.localnet (aclermont-ferrand-653-1-222-123.w90-14.abo.wanadoo.fr [90.14.66.123]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: olce/mail) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Zt1DK2Rb4z9jK; Wed, 07 May 2025 16:38:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from olce@freebsd.org) From: Olivier Certner To: Xin LI Cc: src-committers@freebsd.org, dev-commits-src-all@freebsd.org, dev-commits-src-main@freebsd.org Subject: Re: git: 83507f9e6fed - main - newsyslog(8): Disable compression by default in newsyslog.conf. Date: Wed, 07 May 2025 18:38:35 +0200 Message-ID: <5049201.M427ezpTYi@ravel> In-Reply-To: <202505040750.5447oQWq012045@gitrepo.freebsd.org> References: <202505040750.5447oQWq012045@gitrepo.freebsd.org> List-Id: Commit messages for the main branch of the src repository List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/dev-commits-src-main List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: dev-commits-src-main@freebsd.org Sender: owner-dev-commits-src-main@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart5743926.vRHrNHmk2K"; micalg="pgp-sha384"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" --nextPart5743926.vRHrNHmk2K Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; protected-headers="v1" From: Olivier Certner To: Xin LI Date: Wed, 07 May 2025 18:38:35 +0200 Message-ID: <5049201.M427ezpTYi@ravel> In-Reply-To: <202505040750.5447oQWq012045@gitrepo.freebsd.org> References: <202505040750.5447oQWq012045@gitrepo.freebsd.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Hi Xin and all, > (snip) > Historically, newsyslog compressed rotated log files to save disk spa= ce. > This was helpful when storage was limited. However, with modern files > systems like ZFS providing built-in compression and with larger disks > now common, the benefits of additional log compression have diminishe= d, > especially given the inconvenience of needing to decompress logs when > searching for specific patterns. > (snip) I remember having rebuked these arguments and most of the other ones presen= ted in a discussion started by commit 2f036705f337 ("Document the two recen= t newsyslog(8) change (-c option and configuration option).") mo= re than a year ago. The main point of contention was turning the compressi= on off by default. Re-reading what I wrote, I still find it as spot on as = it seemed at that time. In a nutshell, I developed ample arguments showing= why the benefits of compression for logs far outweigh the drawbacks. In f= act, I could only find one drawback in a very niche scenario where log file= s would stay big (i.e., they are not rotated enough/based on size). All ot= her "drawbacks" reported by you and those wanting the change were very weak= at best, and even sometimes based on plain wrong assumptions (to stay poli= te). In a subsequent private message, I was told there would be some followup to= my last mail wrapping up the discussion (dated 2024/01/10), but unfortunat= ely it never came. Today, browsing D43169, D43466 or even related D42961, = I can see that there are exactly zero new arguments for the need to disable= compression *by default*. In absence of more elements, I thus stand by the same conclusion as one yea= r ago: The sensible default is to enable compression (for files marked as c= ompressible), and for POLA it is probably to stay with 'legacy', so that co= mpression letters actually mandate the desired compression format. This is= what seems to benefit most uses and users by far. In other words, this commit should just be reverted. Surely some people will find that this is a minor change, that we should no= t make a fuss about it and just change our configuration file at next updat= e if we disagree. That would just be missing the point. We are developing= and shipping to users a highly configurable complex system, with lots of m= oving parts, automatic tuning mechanisms, configuration files, and admin-tu= nable parameters that more often then not are piling up over time. Expecti= ng that most of our users will have/take the time to review and tweak even = a fraction of them and correctly for their use case seems a delusion to me.= They will just keep running with with essentially the automatically tuned= and default values with some exceptions. Consequently, we should strive t= o have sensible defaults, even on minor stuff, as otherwise we keep adding = burden on administrators with all the bad choices/changes we made they have= to correct (if at all possible), not even speaking about more casual users= who at some point will choose to just give up and choose another system. I would like to encourage a realization in this matter (or a rebuttal if yo= u do not agree). I would also like that, at the very least, people have some consideration w= hen some others spend non-trivial amounts of time reviewing their work and = endorsing the sometimes not-fun role of seriously challenging them for (wha= t they think is) the greater good, e.g., by responding to well-argued criti= cism. =46or this precise case, I've read all the above-mentioned material (revisi= ons, commits) and exchanged mails on src-committers@, and sent all my point= s to the latter (in January 2024). I certainly don't intend to participate= in a rehash of what has already been said in these venues, that would just= be a waste of time, thank you. But if there are new elements in favor of = this change, or if some of my understanding or arguments were wrong, I'd be= glad to hear about that.=20 Thanks and regards. =2D-=20 Olivier Certner --nextPart5743926.vRHrNHmk2K Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part. 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