From nobody Fri Sep 25 16:59:00 2026 X-Original-To: dev-commits-src-all@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4hrxkH2mmSz6tfNh; Fri, 25 Sep 2026 16:59:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from christos@freebsd.org) Received: from margiolis.net (mail.margiolis.net [95.179.159.8]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange x25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA512) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4hrxkG29L3z4VBy; Fri, 25 Sep 2026 16:59:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from christos@freebsd.org) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=margiolis.net header.s=default header.b=AkHQoW0w; spf=softfail (mx1.freebsd.org: 95.179.159.8 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of christos@freebsd.org) smtp.mailfrom=christos@freebsd.org; dmarc=fail reason="No valid SPF, DKIM not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=freebsd.org (policy=none) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; s=default; bh=vKXV4G4SDZ8p 25/JM+4y54/G1Tv5fgAMrsdaWEEa9iM=; h=in-reply-to:references:to:from: subject:cc:date; d=margiolis.net; b=AkHQoW0wZ8ndy5XYoFPAE4mE6jTZ+uTOr+ KFzuzciuQ4jtvwR0oeXTWvb4Ma8GJl4SENxLHisRbbfb4lkd6OBsmXO9NK2JVuqyStTP3N ANhgM8q0w+ZWEIk6MwMZH8AheJ5Er44oGI04HQNIyLpSMyjs23siz2S3rFGjoN+nIf8= Received: from localhost (public-gprs570200.centertel.pl [37.225.90.153]) by margiolis.net (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 6456091f (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO); Fri, 25 Sep 2026 10:59:00 -0600 (MDT) List-Id: Commit messages for all branches of the src repository List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/dev-commits-src-all List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: dev-commits-src-all@freebsd.org Sender: owner-dev-commits-src-all@FreeBSD.org List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: List-Owner: Precedence: list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2026 18:59:00 +0200 Message-Id: Cc: , , , "John Baldwin" Subject: Re: git: 32137c41065c - main - sound: Retire the version constants From: "Christos Margiolis" To: "Jason Harmening" X-Mailer: aerc 0.22.0 References: <6ab2bc22.412bd.10bb456f@gitrepo.freebsd.org> <2df20868-4983-4169-a94e-da6adf2fb3ea@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.30 / 15.00]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[margiolis.net:s=default]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[freebsd.org : No valid SPF, DKIM not aligned (relaxed),none]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:20473, ipnet:95.179.144.0/20, country:US]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[christos]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; R_SPF_SOFTFAIL(0.00)[~all]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; ALIAS_RESOLVED(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_HELO_LOCALHOST(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[dev-commits-src-all@freebsd.org,dev-commits-src-main@freebsd.org]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[margiolis.net:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4hrxkG29L3z4VBy On Fri Sep 25, 2026 at 6:27 PM CEST, Jason Harmening wrote: > On Fri, Sep 25, 2026 at 5:34=E2=80=AFAM Christos Margiolis > wrote: > >> On Wed Sep 23, 2026 at 10:19 PM CEST, Jason Harmening wrote: >> > On Wed, Sep 23, 2026 at 2:19=E2=80=AFPM John Baldwin = wrote: >> > >> >> On 9/22/26 14:54, Jason Harmening wrote: >> >> > Do you plan to also bump __FreeBSD_version__ for these changes? >> >> > This will break any out-of-tree sound driver that uses these macros= , >> >> > particularly if you MFC it. >> >> > Such drivers will then need some way to determine whether to hardco= de >> '1' >> >> > or use the previous macro/hardcode '5' to avoid a failed dependency >> >> check. >> >> > I still maintain such a thing, however few users there may be, and = it >> >> seems >> >> > unsafe to assume there aren't others. >> >> > >> >> > This seems like a completely unnecessary change TBH. >> >> >> >> Can you use #ifdef to test if they are defined in an out-of-tree driv= er? >> >> In >> >> your case, perhaps as something like: >> >> >> >> #ifndef SOUND_MINVER >> >> #define SOUND_MINVER 1 >> >> #endif >> >> >> >> >> > >> > Sure, I mentioned that very possibility in my post on >> > https://reviews.freebsd.org/D59873. >> > That's still a hack, and I'm still not sure why it was necessary to ki= ll >> > these defines in the first place. >> >> Does your driver actually depend on sound(4)'s versioning, and if yes, >> how? >> > > Uh, yes...just like all the in-tree drivers before you made this change, = it > depended on those version constants to allow the module to load correctly= . > > Of course I get what you're really asking here, and no...just like the > in-tree drivers, it does not make any functional distinction between > different sound(4) versions. So the versioning was functionally useless in your driver too. >> >> The reason for deleting those, although technically unnecessary, was >> because these values have been forgotten for years and do not actually >> mean anything useful, so I think it's better to just clean this up and >> fix the few (if any) use-cases, than keep this rotting further. > > > I completely understand that these no longer meant anything useful in ter= ms > of KPI/KBI compatibility, but I don't really see why getting rid of them > was worth the churn, even just the in-tree churn (disregarding risks for > out-of-tree drivers). What ongoing maintenance burden were these defines > likely to cause? There wasn't any significant maintenance burden, but that church wasn't anything complicated to implement either, and I don't see a point of keeping something that is functionally dead. > As a separate question, would it instead make sense to make these version= s > start meaning something again? > For example, you recently made a change to require mixer_init() to be > called in a certain order relative to other initialization. That change > seems perfectly reasonable from a technical standpoint, but would it also > make sense to bump the version constants to avoid a panic from loading a > stale audio driver kmod that didn't use the correct init sequence? This would be a good use case yes. I will think a bit more about it. Christos