From nobody Fri Oct 22 20:19:54 2021 X-Original-To: dev-commits-src-all@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77E7A181C6B2; Fri, 22 Oct 2021 20:20:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bjkfbsd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ua1-x929.google.com (mail-ua1-x929.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::929]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1D4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4HbbLY2dCJz4lwk; Fri, 22 Oct 2021 20:20:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bjkfbsd@gmail.com) Received: by mail-ua1-x929.google.com with SMTP id e5so2851184uam.11; Fri, 22 Oct 2021 13:20:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=0HHwmJWIPS/0GhwgKDTgvhxTVXsB/fCjhzJHKtSnbcc=; b=nzXYZq7jtV1ci+UuLi1M8CnaH1A7QmFMr/p4tJOX4qUHh++4bJs44IyGW+CXY9l+Fc Z66avDLe0MjkmEvA5WE1UndpefMTVuzD5sYielCB+z6B6geyTSN7b82aq0krRHlt4BKj ij6gYGNcnSE6NW6j10taMRYtU/GK//n3m2LqMtblhhFEya4+qSojIZ1k1pgDAH1oIA7+ CEQlR6vZNHajwg3+xcc7nmqfsI0kwPAHc2qCB8U+Y/3uNPgLq2KSJRfUfVsRXoP7BbY2 4Uij/0z8S7NXuWi2Z0xjKRcECvuCHFOyg34pAufc2Ves9y5NH0FMF3BcPKdE/b3XtBFJ tOHw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=0HHwmJWIPS/0GhwgKDTgvhxTVXsB/fCjhzJHKtSnbcc=; b=xcyRQoVdqiBMFg1Pk+T6rdP28Cj3JiQ8xGme6tjlQhGhtFHAhs6qe2+pH3NuyWrgLW JSUtChDQ0uueb/ckHGFonq+Q/GmT5OJhIn/E/3I9avsc6zQAuy6sJGM5dCkX6nn00R9q nnIIl/jLPpe4YIju+SQgJWj0AUNxTmPbcuSuFRq2y/X8WDI/Dua+gLpxnOpAZY+ZT4eU ncOWv4T19I0AE8ClpQmiWlSn3gSlOEPUz17uCUsYVxMMDySX0PC/I4D+61W91DNoS1X8 vvRSzXyc9oL0bUqQ9GfjcOL54nPmE/wmSQvLToKgG6p/pE5KouJgrchQrNojEAKuqluH HGUg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533SrLxZ6cgp5yMoze7hATQovWah12u6DKAUVGiCW7rDEEfRBnrQ yB8US2FBf2jDCiRYVEsj6wnwJpB70wZN2GSHrQEePb+X8cE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyJG1FE7VetXxWxvfdiiw9fB4G8yyPUhM34TCs41GDt8zmQ5Avo17r6YZw1mWO02JLtTHoPFIj+mVNJARDWqf8= X-Received: by 2002:a67:cb87:: with SMTP id h7mr2942199vsl.0.1634934005002; Fri, 22 Oct 2021 13:20:05 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Commit messages for all branches of the src repository List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/dev-commits-src-all List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-dev-commits-src-all@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: dev-commits-src-all@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20211021192020.6dcb95c1@ernst.home> <202110221704.19MH4FDn075994@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> <20211022194717.8c94d2fa302339b55882497f@bidouilliste.com> In-Reply-To: <20211022194717.8c94d2fa302339b55882497f@bidouilliste.com> From: Benjamin Kaduk Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2021 13:19:54 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: git: 225639e7db68 - main - vt: Disable bell by default To: Emmanuel Vadot Cc: "Rodney W. Grimes" , "Rodney W. Grimes" , gljennjohn@gmail.com, Gleb Smirnoff , Slawa Olhovchenkov , src-committers , dev-commits-src-all@freebsd.org, dev-commits-src-main@freebsd.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009977a905cef6bc5a" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4HbbLY2dCJz4lwk X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N --0000000000009977a905cef6bc5a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Fri, Oct 22, 2021 at 10:47 AM Emmanuel Vadot wrote: > On Fri, 22 Oct 2021 10:04:15 -0700 (PDT) > "Rodney W. Grimes" wrote: > > > We need to STOP these "I dont like the 20 year old defaults, > > so I am going to change them to what I like and use" It is NOT > > forward progress on making a better system, it is tilting at > > defaults, very long established defaults, that should probably > > just be left alone. > > It's not "I don't like", it's "We don't like". If we can't change > FreeBSD default to what most of our users want I don't know why we're > still working on this OS. > **We** can change the defaults. But to know that we, as a community, have consensus to make the change, we need to have a conversation. Having that conversation before making the change seems like a much better [*] approach than presenting the change as a fait accompli and waiting for dissent. In other words, I am okay with changing the default (I personally do not feel a need for it), but am unhappy that there was no conversation about it other than a phabricator review that was apparently only open for about a day. -Ben * I have some other, more precise, adjectives I would like to use, but I think the risk of them being interpreted harmfully is too high to use them in this forum. I'm happy to talk more in some other forum if you want. --0000000000009977a905cef6bc5a--