Re: git: 225639e7db68 - main - vt: Disable bell by default

On Wed, 20 Oct 2021 10:11:05 -0700
Gleb Smirnoff <glebius@freebsd.org> wrote:

>   Emmanuel,
> 
> On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 01:42:37PM +0200, Emmanuel Vadot wrote:
> E>  Stop using POLA for "This is a change that I don't agree with".
> 
> A change that just changes the system behaviour and nothing else,
> is a POLA violation.
> 
> E>  In the past weeks we had commits that changed mixer(8) cli in a
> E> non-backward compatible way and changed the root shell. For both you
> E> haven't complain so it means that either you don't care or you agree
> E> with those changes.
> 
> Mixer and root shell weren't like your change. Mixer is a complete
> rewrite which has some technical background to justify it. Root shell
> is also different to what you did. It is not flip of a binary switch.
> 
> E>  I agree that the bell is clearly a user preference and also I could
> E> have left the review opened for more time (but I've been there and
> E> usually you have review/feedback the first day and after it's silent).
> E> I wish there was an easy way for developer (and community member) to
> E> create a poll for changes like that but we don't have one right now.
> E>  Now based on the number of people who reviewed and the people who sent
> E> me private message to thanks me for this change I think that more
> E> people are annoyed by the bell than people who wants it and we want
> E> sane default that most users agrees on in base FreeBSD. If you don't
> E> agree with the defaults we have a way to change them.
> 
> To me this looks like abuse of committer priveleges. I got commit bit,
> so I can change the defaults.

 Oh common ...

> Speaking of the bell itself. It is of course very annoying on some
> laptops, especially if the laptop is used by someone else, not you.
> But it is extremely useful when working in a loud server room on
> a console, reviving a crashed machine, usually in a very stressful
> environment. Gives feeling of machine being responsive or not being
> responsive.

 Let's agree to disagree, I think that a high pitch noise like the bell
in a stressful environment is horrible and makes me want to punch
things (keyboard, screen, co-worker etc ...)

> So it is more a question of server vs desktop default. Okay, let's
> ignore the biased opinion that FreeBSD is a server OS. But I would
> assert that vt(4) is a way more used on servers, rather than on
> laptops. 

 That's probably true.
 Now, I don't think that nowadays people spend a lot of time in
datacenter installing FreeBSD on their server, they rack the machine,
make sure that the BMC is working and leave. This makes the bell
useless.

> If somebody is using vt(4) instead of X on a laptop, then
> this person is special. Either really impared, as Shawn suggested,
> or just a geek who hates GUI. In the latter case, they should tweak
> the configuration.
> 
> -- 
> Gleb Smirnoff

 Except that FreeBSD doesn't include drm drivers or graphical env by
default so the first thing that a user (new or not) have to deal with
is vt(4). So they will login, do a bunch of command to configure the
machine and will probably use tab for completion, and what will they
hear when multiple commands are possible ? The bell. What will they
hear if they try to go left or right in the shell and arrive at one of
the ends ? The bell. And they will hear it in a bunch of other
situation.

 Again it's clearly user preference and as you can see I really hate
this bell. I'm sure that more people than the one who answered this
commit like the bell but the question is do more people wants it on be
default or not ?
 The non-scientific method that is twitter seems to agree with me
(https://twitter.com/FreeBSDHelp/status/1450955125002887170).
 So, do we really want to make a poll so users can vote on what to do
with a freaking bell ???

-- 
Emmanuel Vadot <manu@bidouilliste.com> <manu@freebsd.org>