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Mon, 25 Aug 2025 07:39:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1684d15d-c0eb-4206-832c-f59c582a6d67@mm.st> Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2025 18:39:08 +0700 List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: UPDATING stuff To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org References: <2r579os7-29n7-890r-9210-s3s1n4r0s4qo@fncre.vasb> <548137ff7d2289fa60a1cba14afa4957@Leidinger.net> Content-Language: en-US From: cyric@mm.st In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.10 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[mm.st,none]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[mm.st:s=fm3,messagingengine.com:s=fm3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:202.12.124.128/27]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[202.12.124.156:from]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[mm.st]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[mm.st]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[mm.st:+,messagingengine.com:+]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:151847, ipnet:202.12.124.0/24, country:AU]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FROM_NO_DN(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[messagingengine.com:dkim] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4c9TN34jfpz4FLT Warner Losh wrote: > > > On Mon, Aug 25, 2025 at 3:13 AM Alexander Leidinger > > wrote: > > Am 2025-08-25 10:44, schrieb Marcin Cieslak: > > On Thu, 21 Aug 2025, Alexander Leidinger wrote: > > > >>>> COMPAT_FREEBSD14?  (Recently [gs]etgroups were changed, with > >>>> compatibility syscalls moved to COMPAT_FREEBSD14). > >> > >> UPDATING only mentions VMM stuff for COMPAT_FREEBSD14. I give this a > >> try tomorrow. But would this also affect the zfs dataset stuff? > > > > This thread could have been a simple UPDATING update.  I think > this is > > the fourth > > time or so I have run into problems, because the changes were not > > explained. > > > > UPDATING entry on VMM got only there after I've spent 2 days+ > > troubleshooting > > my wifibox failures. > > > > When I read your message I was immediately thinking you might need > > "COMPAT_FREEBSD14", > > but, again, I couldn't find any obvious entry neither in the docs nor > > in > > the git log I was looking at. > > > > @glebus - maybe during the stabilization effort the changes done > to the > > tree > > could be reviewed and documented? > > > >  - where the FreeBSD_version got bumped and why > > This is normally documented in > https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/porters-handbook/versions/ > > (intended > to be updated at the time when the FreeBSD_versions is increased), > but I > can agree that the info there is a bit terse sometimes. > > >  - ABI changes > >  - .... > > > > For example it could be useful to be able to find the information > "what > > does COMPAT_FREEBSD14 do exactly" in the UPDATING/release notes file. > > Otherwise I can't be sure if I need that option or "is my system > fresh > > enough" > > to remove it from the kernel. > > > It provides the system call interface as of FreeBSD 14. As new system > calls are added that replace old ones, they are moved to being > conditional on COMPAT_FREEBSD14. You should never remove the > COMPAT_FREEBSDX when you are on current X+1. It's a recipe for pain. > FreeBSD 14 binaries still might not always work (there are companion > issues with shared library bumps for our non-symbol-versioned libraries > too: there you have to wait for new compat14 package and/or play libmap > games since the major bump usually is compatible enough to run most old > programs but not always and not perfectly... libmap is at best a stop-gap). >   > > What do you think about this? > diff --git UPDATING UPDATING > index ddb2e7603b2a..e197940c6431 100644 > --- UPDATING > +++ UPDATING > @@ -73,6 +73,12 @@ NOTE TO PEOPLE WHO THINK THAT FreeBSD 15.x IS SLOW: >          If you only have FreeBSD-sendmail installed for applications > that >          require libmilter, you can now remove it. > > +20250815: > +       The [gs}etgroups(2)syscalls have changed. To maintain backwards > +       compatibility with existing programs, you need COMPAT_FREEBSD14 > in > +       your kernel config until all applications which use this are > +       rebuild/reinstalled. > + >   20250815: >          jemalloc 5.3.0 has been committed to the tree. > > > I'd make it stronger. We should proactively create a COMPAT_FREEBSD15 > just after the branch and add it to GENERIC. You 100% of the time want > this if you aren't updating every last binary on your system each and > every time you update. We should add that to our checklist to do eary, > rather than late, as needed. It shouldn't be buried in an obscure entry, > but advice we always give for everybody, all the time. GENERIC has it in > there, which is why most people won't see this issue. I wonder why it's not done the other way around, having the options to *exclude* the compat bits so there are no surprises for users with custom kernel configs.