From nobody Wed Aug 20 14:31:52 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4c6TRq5sPTz64Wr7; Wed, 20 Aug 2025 14:32:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from erichansepe@gmail.com) Received: from mail-yw1-x112d.google.com (mail-yw1-x112d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::112d]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4c6TRp4f6bz3ds3; Wed, 20 Aug 2025 14:32:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from erichansepe@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=hSXDFdNA; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of erichansepe@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::112d as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=erichansepe@gmail.com Received: by mail-yw1-x112d.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-71d6051afbfso54963527b3.2; Wed, 20 Aug 2025 07:32:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1755700324; x=1756305124; darn=freebsd.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject :date:message-id:reply-to; bh=fRNainf5waqjKWOrVGRnYVAW+4SNJCKe91BHghQ3fpE=; b=hSXDFdNAGVrXS8wZhdzYElpH2PX1wBH+418/R0pb0MLoMhMQy/FiKdIdODLs0Wfiec anQQ34X8uNcZ1+hfKHqIr9FMz8o4mBDSF2gSpNSZCF2rRnzRspYwGEb2HKy7LdbpnwgO K4q20uYA3BgqkJB+wmn+tHn65mxwwfA3VoVJwtnCaysZZnezgSrQI4HazzONXlsqjYAw xBaxBplFrIRRFSfX9nn4qOnmdwFcodpAe/DKb+tLbvBUhTXIeCxMiz3c4F68Gw92K586 WY44alOve18b6YZFn2lWRiCCHIL/ioVcfoNwFzdOUFcBMz0jhnORRf2cFsYkTrc4gk6u ObSw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1755700324; x=1756305124; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:mime-version:x-gm-message-state :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=fRNainf5waqjKWOrVGRnYVAW+4SNJCKe91BHghQ3fpE=; b=neS+s+/5uw8e+GezQnZnOcKhOc+D9Hy17FFwo2BnoU75ZyZa2lHtG63aBEUEOxgdy8 Bpoatvv+Kw1GZ9jmTxoL4YfW/dZ/+bD/niqkrOpRndT4oGyRyIf2rz/OOWmae1Mfwtsa CvXV7ByxB7cfCyoFc1aFAW1nv97Fb8p4Xf5o26rE0sTZJlLPPv2E44PB84eD5h6HlGbk Q1meDTBkSspOhh5PcYAjTPFef5/SNU2KcUjtqwVsfm3H4uCiSjr6ZgInYtnTCL4NohNh lq5xQwlEHl4cLGXdqvVnZBEWAc4SMZNzTmxcwKVKuS4HD3TjtTo+Lb0PTBNjK+og8Uev 6AoQ== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCUGpf5SBaurwqwGnCV+3xezvsj7ejgNlf1TEdedgDLx/AyP41/eLrdSrqkQr/98z7vwQ9o=@freebsd.org, AJvYcCWli9GwxagZ/jGil4+Lwboly2AgaYGmLWGlkhIHkAmpFs8N/MaO40Czkm6xGy0JlLGx/kqrZhhmoNGD2Ybt@freebsd.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yz/WBshSH6JM1uSmngSPJ82dTqF6VXRvY5XfO2Te2uVcMtSUM/Y 2UlfNLEBRVUMNRQSNa7XmcR3+s/gN8CM+QVtxas3ly+yOzXXr2QLjoZYiiNTzyV4iElIlsp+F1a roTMJSz3cByjeXLOHTNjRUCaaDbFmyuvjQHLl X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncsfJNEJ6E5M+1QPrR3HLakOUHRYCiuqPNA8T1kOzhvd+E1thB8hgvaQIOEWQj6 WcNvORplOWJ56h7kumzpGeKqzDavUiExGB+jSLlwy8FRwhdO0CSsZlwG4oY3/LDbUJY+iSMdil5 1PXrR6MJ8vp9fkFd2NEiuHoQfQ2K7Ie0jtnwkw5Q2/93v8ZGjISfgOsep5OKv0t19Xbu6k4ANz5 NPaAT+XCJJksh99CAy+Z8q7zHUYvbe9W0akN5OZMw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEDMCIaPyL3PIzejyAvVj7AXjM171/20cEZ/9SdajPviSmSxzm79vE/fchZbFUbSzM28gNq6FCQiNeMa40IM6Q= X-Received: by 2002:a05:690c:6f90:b0:71c:1e93:272d with SMTP id 00721157ae682-71fb320e7admr35581697b3.31.1755700324250; Wed, 20 Aug 2025 07:32:04 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Eric Hans Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2025 16:31:52 +0200 X-Gm-Features: Ac12FXxuOXe_NA8eZ1kmhNkHSF_NOYATZwKzsmLXAjKDY1y38gMw_IS7EB2gkfo Message-ID: Subject: RE: RFC: Renaming "FreeBSD" repo in /etc/pkg/FreeBSD.conf to "FreeBSD-ports" To: Colin Percival Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, "freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.org" , FreeBSD Release Engineering Team Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.98 / 15.00]; FAKE_REPLY(1.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.982]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20230601]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::112d:from]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-current@freebsd.org,freebsd-ports@freebsd.org]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROMTLD(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4c6TRp4f6bz3ds3 > From: "Colin Percival" > To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org, "freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.org" > Cc: "FreeBSD Release Engineering Team" > Sent: Wednesday, 20 August, 2025 00:49:23 > Subject: RFC: Renaming "FreeBSD" repo in /etc/pkg/FreeBSD.conf to "FreeBSD-ports" > > Hi everyone, > > With pkgbase being the intended way for users to manage 15.0 systems, > the current default /etc/pkg/FreeBSD.conf gives rise to confusion: It > defines a "FreeBSD" pkg repository which is in fact specifically bits > maintained *outside* of FreeBSD (and packaged via the ports tree). > > To reduce long-term confusion, I'm intending to rename the "FreeBSD" > repository to "FreeBSD-ports", and similarly rename "FreeBSD-kmods" to > "FreeBSD-ports-kmods". The repositories will still work, and will still > access the same URLs, but the change will be visible; probably the most > common scenario where this would cause problems for users is if they have > "FreeBSD: {enabled: no }" in /usr/local/etc/pkg/repos/FreeBSD.conf, since > that would need to be adjusted to chase this change. > > For obvious reasons, this change would not be MFCed. >++ > You've got a week to convince me that this is a bad idea, otherwise I'll > make the change on the 27th; I want to get this out of the way before we > get too close to branching stable/15. I don't prefer: "FreeBSD" -> "FreeBSD-ports" "FreeBSD-kmods" -> "FreeBSD-ports-kmods" A long time ago in FreeBSD, in many versions there was only source. With a ports tree (source), remote derived package repositories (binaries) have been supplied in two main varieties: 'latest' and 'quarterly'. However, out of necessity and in order to being able to supply the newest driver developments to users, the number of remote repositories has been extended. FreeBSD-kmods has been added with separate instances for supported stable and release versions, and also for main/head. Package repositories are accessed and set up differently compared to the ports tree structure; they form a separate collection from which _packages_ can be selected. Ports can be viewed as agnostic where it concerns - CPU architecture - source branch: releng vs stable vs main/current - a specific supported FreeBSD version, e.g. 14.{2,3}-RELEASE Only when building them resulting binaries will have these specific properties. Packages are derived from ports, but I think by many users they are foremost perceived as a separate collection and mechanism to get to a desired installed FreeBSD OS beyond a base install. Current trends, such as (in slogan format): - prefer packages over ports - warning: do not mix ports and packages - IIRC, portmaster in its original role is no longer supported and has been moved out of base - poudriere: not intended for the average FreeBSD user only seem to emphasize this evolutionary path. Attempts to increase its user base would likely be hindered if ports were declared as preferred. If a name change is what is needed, I'd prefer: "FreeBSD" -> "FreeBSD-pkgs" "FreeBSD-kmods" -> "FreeBSD-pkgs-kmods" Kind regards, Eric