Stumped:: web HTML. Caution, may be OT.

[Gary Kline]

On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 11:05:36PM +0100, Frank Shute wrote:
> On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 01:05:22PM -0700, Gary Kline wrote:
> >

	[[ ... ]]

> 
> > /*
> >  * strange:: the way that mutt queues [ and orders ] its replies and threads is 
> >  * different from kmail.  I only use a GUI when there is a URL embedded, but
> >  * it must be down-queue.   ....
> >  */
> 
> Use textproc/urlview with mutt & Firefox.


	Frank, can you do me a favor and mail your ~/.urlview, please?
	I installed this program a few years ago, but it only worked 
	with lynx. I just found the url_handler.sh script so now have a
	clue.... but if your ~/.urlview points to firefox you'll save me
	some typing.   --Also [going further OT], I like Konsole even
	better than xterm.--

> 
> > 
> >
> > I would *rather* use vi and HTML-by-hand.   And produce very simple,
> > readable,  uncluttered pages.  I don't use many graphics, e.g., I
> > use the strength of HTML, php, blah ** 3.  
> > 
> 
> 
> Since you're "a do it by hand" person, I'll give you the benefit of my
> experiences doing my pages that way.
> 
> My site is on a similar scale to yours and I've just kept it simple
> except where I've used server-side (PHP/Perl) and Javascript.


	Sounds like what I've done, more/less.  My index file in 
	www/data is PHP.  php keeps getting closer to C,  &c; I've
	written a few things in php.


> 
> 1.
> 
> Use Firefox to develop with and install the webdeveloper plug-in:
> 
> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/60
> 
> Use vim not vi, since you get syntax highlighting with vim/gvim.


	Mm, I'm familiar with vim; like it all right, but lost my 
	~/.vimrc file (and my backup).  NP in this case.  vim does 
	a solid job of highlighting.  

> 
> Add x11/rgb to your system and:
> 
> $ showrgb | less 
> 
> will show you the websafe colours. Plug in the numbers to your
> stylesheet to get your preferred colours. You can view the colours
> with e.g:
> 
> $ xterm -bg steelblue
> 
> Or:
> 
> http://www.w3schools.com/tags/ref_colornames.asp


	Have the rgb app; when I began building my jottings pages I knew
	the colors would set the philosophic/meditative mood, so in early
	'02 I ripped off the light blue from the philosophy pages at
	Lampeter.   Then used various color wheels to choose the other
	colors.  This is about the outer limits of my "design
	capabilities", :-)


> 
> I use Gimp for any graphics.


	Impressive.  Anything at the level of The GIMP is beyond me.

> 
> 2.
> 
> Choose a standard that you are going to code to and validate against.
> I use XHTML1.0 Transitional and CSS. Things are going more XML than
> HTML and transitional is less restrictive than strict.
> 

	Here is where it may be best to take this offlist.  I'm guessing
	that XHTML is "extended-HTML."  Yes/no?  >= 10 years ago I
	created some short stories andor essays using the Sytle Sheets.
	But as you point out, XML is prob'ly the future of markup and I
	know next to nothing about it.  

	For example, given <firstName>John</firstName>, *where/what*
	defines the tag?  Since the WWW bunch has given XML the nod, it
	is both the present and future of a lot of the web.   ---So,
	are there any books for Beginners you recommend?  You or anyone
	else onlist who has waded thru this plea!


> 3.
> 
> Have a look at w3c schools site to learn your chosen language:
> 
> http://www.w3schools.com/
> 
> There are various tutorials and references there. Best site on the
> 'net!
> 

	hMMM:-) Maybe I should've read ahead.... .


> 4.
> 
> Steal a simple page that validates:
> 
> http://www.shute.org.uk/miscellany.html
> 
> and use it as a template to hack on. Steal the style sheet too.
> 
> Validate your webpage as you go along with the w3c validator.

	Should I just google for the validator?  At any rate, thanks much
	for the   two URL's above.  The more I can learn on my own
	(without bothering anyone else), the better.


> 
> 5.
> 
> A few tips:
> 
> Use <div>'s for layout, not tables.


	i cannot // hhaven't made sense of <DIV> since I first saw it.
	*This* may be where I've confused IE and Konq and it might be the
	easiest way to create the layout that firefox gives me.

	As I see it, ttables let you put rectangles anywhere; then you
	can putt other things inside; how to do this with <DIV> is one
	more black hole.



> 
> Don't use fixed text heights, use relative so it respects the users
> preferences for text size.


	I didn't understand you could hardwire a textsize; maybe I've
	done it inadvertently ... 



> 
> Keep an eye out for pages that look nice and validate. View source &
> then steal chunks of xhtml and css. 
> 

	I still have unread messages down-queue, but may as well ask if
	there are any HTML/XML checkers in ports that would help validate
	my mark.  David Kelly suggested www/tidy, for one.  

	It's been partly ignorance, partly my deadlines, and partly my
	thinking that my pages just could never be as badly rendered 
	as they are that made me snap-to.  Like to prevent this... .

> 6.
> 
> Happy hacking!
> 
> 
> You'll find that your validated pages will show fine in most modern
> browsers although some have more quirks than others. But when you get
> somebody say "Your webpage doesn't look right in Internet Exploder 5"
> you can say to them "Get a proper browser that respects web
> standards!


	L.O.L!.  I'm hoping that most people have something better than
	W95.

	thanks again, and cheers,

	gary


> 
> Regards,
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
>  Frank 
> 
> 
>  Contact info: http://www.shute.org.uk/misc/contact.html 
> 

-- 
  Gary Kline  kline at thought.org   www.thought.org  Public Service Unix
        http://jottings.thought.org   http://transfinite.thought.org