Convince me, please!

David Southwell david at
Wed Aug 15 03:01:47 PDT 2007

On Wednesday 15 August 2007 03:14:09 David Southwell wrote:
> On Wednesday 08 August 2007 23:20:28 Goltsios Theodore wrote:
> >     Well sorry if  I'm  getting annoying but I think you face the Unix
> > world in the wrong manner. Well you expect to find something you are
> > used to, or something like MS Win you only know. I advise that you
> > should be more open minded, willing to read and spare time to get
> > familiar to the Unix OSes that are around. But the advantages are and
> > the power that these kind of systems offer, which is probably unlimited
> > compared with the Windowz strict and limited way of operating. If you
> > really don't want that kind of power (thus doing what you must faster,
> > better and in a more efficient way) then you are in the wrong place. A
> > good way to start solving all questions concerning the FreeBSD is its
> > handbook or the perhaps the FAQ.
> >
> >
> >
> > PS Try some googling or the freebsd official site for more resources.
> > I'm sure all your questions will be satisfied.
> >
> > Theodoros Goltsios
> > Kinetix Support Center
> > email: tgol at, support at
> > Tel. & Fax: +30 2310556134
> > WWW:
> >
> > Latitude wrote:
> > > I'm interested in changing over to FreeBSD from Windows, but I'll have
> > > to say, you guys don't really present a forceful argument to Windows
> > > users of how easy the switch may be.  I get knee-deep in FreeBSD jargon
> > > the second I get to your webpage. I need to see an overwhelming
> > > argument that FreeBSD is a perfectly acceptable alternative for home
> > > desktop users who have previously known only Windows.
> > >
> > > For instance, if I download and install FreeBSD, will I instantly have
> > > a desktop windowing environment that I can navigate in while I figure
> > > out what's going on?  Will I have a browser and way to setup an
> > > internet connection right off the bat?  How will I migrate files from
> > > other operating systems?
> > >
> > > I understand you guys have been around for a while, but you don't seem
> > > to understand the monumental "fear" involved in switching operating
> > > systems.  You need to address those concerns head on from the start.  I
> > > need to see several screenshots of apps that I can use as alternatives
> > > to what I have.
> > >
> > > Help me (and yourselves) out.
> I see where both sides in this argument are coming from.. basically a lack
> of understanding of the others point of view. As a user of multiple
> operating systems..Freebsd, Windows 98, 2000, XP and XP 64, Linux and apple
> I thought i might throw in a remark or two which is intended to help a
> newcomer to a freebsd world.
> First lets think of the MS windows user. As a newcomer to a unix OS, such
> as freebsd, you are faced with two very large  sets of challenges or, as I
> would like you to think of it, educational opportunities.
> Because the vendor of the operating system 
I mean here in the MS windows operating system!
> is also the vendor of major 
> applications, including its most commonly used browser, office
> applicatiions and compiler systems non-technically minded users do not
> easily have a clear grasp of the distinction between the  roles of  an OS
> and the role of applications. To use any Unix system effectively a clear
> and reasonably detailed understanding of the way applications interact with
> the operating system is essential.
> For its own commercial reasons Microssssoft are keen to blur that
> distinction in the minds of its users to maintain a false notion that only
> MS windows can fulfill its user's needs.
> Secondly because  MS windows operates in a commercial environment it
> fosters a dependency culture in which you pay for your OS, you pay for your
> applications and in return you EXPECT a level of support and therefore
> users are not encouraged to extend their capabilities beyond understanding
> the applications they use.
> In the freebsd world most applications and utilities  are there for
> installing without charge. The users include people who develop and
> everyone partakes in a foem of voluntary mutual support. It is a world in
> which expectation of support is anathema and in which a combination of
> striving for greater personal comeptency and voluntary sharing of knowledge
> and responsibility is the dominant ethos.
> So if you plan a move to the unix be ready to learn to build a greater
> understanding of how the operating system works, how applications are
> installed and maintained and above all to realize your basic needs will not
> be fulfilled in the same way as they are fulfilled in MS windows and that
> that you will need to put in a lot of effort to understand how to benefit
> from the much greater opportunities provided by OS's such as Freebsd.
> So your first first set of educational opportunities are to learn how
> reconstruct your expectations and to construct a set of relationships that
> will work for you in a unix world.
> The second set of educational opportunities are to study the
> practicalities. You need to decide the basic things you need to get on
> board freebsd. You need a browser.. that is no problem there are many to
> choose from .. you need office tools well there is a complete office suite.
> Whatever you need there will be a tool for you and the choices are a rich
> but usually free!!. The draw back is being faced with the challenge of
> learning how to choose.
> That is daunting challenge and those of us who are familiar with unix
> system, and accustomed to communicating with other freebsd users, are often
> guilty of failing to understand that people who come from an MS Windows
> find the terse ways in which we tend to communicate to be abrasive.
> My suggestion to you would be to proceed without risk. Dabble with freebsd
> alongside your MSWindows system until you reach the point at which you are
> ready or not (as the case may be) to change over completely. You do not
> need the latest hardware to get started. Freebsd is much less bloated and,
> in that respect, more efficient than MS windows. Follow the instructions
> and play with the system and see where you want to go with it. Like
> countries all IT systems and applications have their own language.  MS
> windows has its own language !! Every territory has a language needed to
> discuss its inhabitants understandings. If you use the pejorative term
> jargon to describe a language you will need to learn you will never learn
> to adjust. I recomend you treat this adjustment process is an educational
> opportunity.
> If you are not willing to learn the words that describe how a world that is
> new to you functions then, like a immigrant in a foreign land, you will not
> feel you understand either the practical systems or the cultiure of your
> environment.
> You will not find anyone here wanting to sell you the system!! The unix
> world does not work like that. Those of us who have used unix since before
> MSDos was developed do not easily realize just how difficult the adjustment
> can be for those whose experience is limited to MS windows. Forgive us if
> we seem terse or harsh at times. Our tendency is to indicate resources and
> trust that others will put in the effort to use those resources to solve
> their problems. That is because we have learned that way ourselves and
> trust the process. The adjustment to this way of thinking is not an easy
> path for newcomers.
> Good luck
> David
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