NTP issues with 5.4

[Ted Mittelstaedt]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-freebsd-questions at freebsd.org
> [mailto:owner-freebsd-questions at freebsd.org]On Behalf Of Michal Mertl
> Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 6:37 AM
> To: Ted Mittelstaedt
> Cc: freebsd-questions at freebsd.org
> Subject: RE: NTP issues with 5.4
>
>
> Ted Mittelstaedt píše v st 11. 05. 2005 v 21:05 -0700:
> >
. By
> 'nuke-and-repave'
> > > you mean fresh install? I can't do that on the machines in
> > > question, one
> > > of them is acting as a router.
> > >
> >
> > Then go to Goodwill and buy a $10 PC and load 5.4 on it.  Your making
> > excuses.  If you have that many production systems that you
> just can't
> > turn off, then you damn well better have a test system.
>
> Please calm down and don't "order" me what to do.
>

I'll order you what to do if your coming here to ask for assistance.  If
you don't want to do it then that's your loss if you can't figure it out
some other way.  I don't owe you a polite reply, if you want politeness
then call someone you paid.  All I owe you is a reply that will help
advance your understanding of the problem, it is up to you whether
you want to follow it or not.  If you are too hung up over the politeness
to overlook the meat, then your only harming yourself.

> I have been doing upgrades from source for ages and never had
> a problem.
> It is a documented process and I only upgraded some of the computers
> from 5.3 to 5.4, e.g. not across major versions.
>

Fine, others have had success doing it this way, and others haven't had
success.  If you cannot accept that doing it this way might introduce
a problem then your foolish.  Doing it my way  - a nuke and repave -
can also introduce problems but I'm not stupid enough to assume a
nuke and repave will be perfect every time.

> I believe the chance it's caused by borked installation is minimal -
> what do you think influences ntpd? It's linked to 4 libraries, all of
> them are updated, it doesn't use any system config files and there was
> only a slight change in imported ntp version. It can be caused by bad
> config of ntpd which only recently began to matter or more
> probably by a
> kernel change.
>

Ok, then you have just proven that there cannot be a problem.  Yet,
you said earlier there IS a problem.  So, either there is no problem, or
your
reasoning above is flawed because something changed.  Take your pick.

What I don't get is when people have problems they spend elaborate
amounts of time reasoning why there couldn't possibly be a problem
because everything they have done is right.  Why don't you try using your
logical mind to come up with some hypothesis of what might be
fucked up, then check that out, rather than hypothesis of what couldn't
possibly be fucked up, that you don't have to check?

> I will try to boot with 5.3 kernel.

Good idea, that will indicate if it's a kernel problem.

 I'll also try to see if I can
> reproduce it on some computer which I can try fresh install on.
>

And that will prove one way or another whether the problem was introduced
by upgrading.

Both these will give you some more data to work with rather than
speculation.
And that is the main thrust of my response - when there's a problem, get
your
hands dirty trying things, don't sit there making up reasons why you
shouldn't
have to get your hands dirty.  If my rudeness makes you remember this in
the future you will be a better troubleshooter for it, and I have helped
you, even
though you won't be grateful for it. (which I don't expect, anyway)

Ted